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Sedans High Performance Luxury Sedans
1038 messages, Last post on Jun 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
| no sequential on 2002 M5, perhaps the next generation M5 in 2004? | |
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| When you compare the specs of the M5, E55 AMG and Lexus GS430, they all hover around 3700+-lbs. Which makes me think...the M5 and E55 are tremendous supersedans in their own right, but the GS is the vitrually the same weight as say the M5, a whopping 25% less horses than the m5 (300hp vs. 400hp for the M5). Why then is the GS 430 only 0.8 or so seconds slower than the M5 to sixty? Does this mean that the GS can potentially match the M5 to sixty if compared fairly (with a hypothetical 6-speed manual)? Is it because of gearing or an engineering weakness on BMW's behalf? Not to discredit any M5 enthusiasts out there being that Im an M5 Lover myself...however, might the Lexus produced 4.3 be more potent than the 5.0L bimmer pound for pound(metaphorically speaking of course)?If so, Lexus could come up with a M5/AMG contender should it decide on producing a tweeked up version of its already capable GS430. All it would need to do outside of the drivetrain is redesign the suspension along the lines of its 3-series-esque IS300 and offer a manual 6-speed trans. | |
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".. If so, Lexus could .." The conditional never makes for a good comparison. Fact is Lexus does not offer a car that is in the super-sedan category. The GS430 is nice, sure, but not in this league. |
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| The GS430 may be able to come closer in straightline speed, but throw a curve into the road, and it would fall way back. The M5 is about the whole package, not just the engine. It is the ultimate sports sedan on the planet, and no Lexus could come close~ A.R. | |
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I just wonder if the next generation E55 is going to get the 476 hp engine that the new SL55 is going to have. Mercedes may get the chance to wear the crown again in this class. The GS430 would a get a mutt-hole stomped in it fooling with these cars here. M |
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I meant instead that if lexus has the ability to make the IS handle close to a 3-series (some argue better with its stock 0.91g's albeit a slightly rougher ride) they can potentially make a 0.9-somethin-G handling full-size (GS or some variant) in the next generation given their already capable 4.3 I was just wondering if anyone knows why it takes a relaively larger 5.0L displacement 400hp of an engine for the m5 to get 0-60 in 5 seconds when the GS being the same weight as the M5 and handicapped by 100hp, can obtain 60mph in only 0.7-8 seconds more, keep in mind that the GS is an AUTOMATIC as well! It doesn't add up. Judging from these factors alone, the M5 should be even faster with its manual tranny 6speed and additional 100HP AND additional 0.7L of displacement(torque)! Im not saying that the current GS is a supercar already in the league of the M5. Even if they were able to create numbers like the M5 or AMG's, Lex won't be as "connected" to the driver...however, i am confused by the M5's inability to make the GS430 "eat dust" in this respect outrunning it by a mere 0.7-8sec with such a horsepower, engine displacement, and manual tranny advantage. (3 factors in large favor of M5!) In conslusion, Im simply questioning the future integrity of BMW's gap of superiority in supercar engineering here, not whether or not Lexus offers this or that. Im just concerned with how BMW's performance figs are not all too superior in this light lexus being the more resoursceful, and therefore potentially capable in its own right. To Pablo: I was not comparing what Lex offered, I'm comparing their engineering prowess, b/c thats the whole point of comparing cars from diff. manufacturers, to answer "who are the better engineers?" The M5 still reigns supreme for this generation. Too bad Lexus is focusing on the wrong thing(plush luxury and opulence) b/c if they wanted right now, i bet they could cook up an M5 of their own! Lexus deserves a lot of respect as well |
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Your message is a just a concatenation of would's and could's, sorry. Lexus offers nothing in this category, and thus it's not worth talking all that much about when it comes to spuer-sedans. I have little doubt they "could" build something that "could" come closer to any of these cars, but until they do, it's noth worth wasting our time wondering. And the M5 and any of these cars here utterly dust the GS430 in a straight line. Close to a second is an eternity. The GS430 does not feel *stupidly* fast to me. It is fun and entertaining, but nowhere close these cars. Forget the numbers, cars are a lot about mere feeling, and there's just no comparison. |
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Just driven a E55, GS430, 540i back to back, the AMG is significantly faster than the other two, no comparison. That 1 second to 60mph is a lot, think of it this way, a GS430 and 540i to 60mph in around 6 seconds, the E55/M5 does it in 5 seconds, the Porsche 996 Turbo and Ferrari 360 can do it at around 4.0 seconds. |
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