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High Performance Luxury Sedans

1037 messages,  Last post on Jun 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM

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What is this discussion about? Jaguar XJR, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG, Audi S6, Maserati Quattroporte, Audi S8, Sedan

#264 of 1037 Good review. by pocahontas Oct 25, 2000 (5:04 pm)
Edmund's road test of the 2000 BMW M5 is now available. Here's the direct link: http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/cook/m5/00.bmw.m5.rt.html?id=hprdt00bmwm5A%20">2000 BMW M5, By Miles Cook. What do you think? Happy Motoring. Pocahontas, Edmunds.com/Roving Host
#265 of 1037 Um, not quite... by koesel Oct 25, 2000 (6:30 pm)
Okay, the review was decent but the statement: "An increased stroke is the shortest path to more torque and the M5 delivers in 500 cubic-inch, American big-block V8-type portions." Is just wrong. The block size is actually around 290 (or so) cubic inches -- the size of an American _small-block_ V8, not big-block.
#266 of 1037 Also this gem by mmcbride1 Oct 25, 2000 (8:03 pm)
"There isn't a four-door car on earth that can touch it." What about the E55/S55?
#267 of 1037 follow or get out of the way by moopz Oct 25, 2000 (10:56 pm)
I think he hit the mark right on. I've had a 2000 M5 for the past 8 months, and I have smoked two E55s (e.g. by more than one car length) from stoplights and outrun a couple of 996 (non-turbo.. I would have no chance with the turbos) and C5s (once again, non Z06s) on the interstates. These are all people who were definitely trying, but it wasn't much of a competition. Koesel, the author was using a simile to COMPARE the engine power of the M5 with big blocks... e.g. the word "portions." It is obvious that it doesn't displace that much, since he said later "Massive amounts of big-block-style torque are available at any engine or vehicle speed, in any gear - remarkable for a motor barely displacing more than 300 cubic inches. It almost feels as if the faster you go, the harder the engine pushes you to license-endangering velocities." Brian S, if you look at other publications, they all ranked the M5 ahead of the E55.. Automobile, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend (they liked the M5 better than a freaking Aston Martin). Mmcbride1, I already stated that the E55s that have tried to keep up with this beast.. can't. The S55 is a beautiful car, but is so overgrown for a sports sedan that I would be surprised if it could come within a second of the M5's times. Additionally, I have driven an E55 as well and it doesn't come close to delivering on any level except for neck-snapping acceleration from a dead start. The exterior, interior, ergonomics are all behind. And the point about oil.. some owners use a lot, others don't. But, it all goes away after 7,000 miles no matter what. And the car gets sweeter and sweeter as time goes by. This is definitely the best sports sedan in the world, and everyone knows it (especially automobile journalists.. including Tiff Needell). It will be the same in the next generation as well (in about 5 years for the new E"XX", M5, and XJ"X" offerings)
#268 of 1037 There's also by mmcbride1 Oct 25, 2000 (11:11 pm)
The CL55 (but that's a coupe, so I didn't include it), but it promises to be the fastest of the MB _55's, and probably as fast as, or faster than the M5 (but still no 5 spd.).
#269 of 1037 Review misleading by gilboman Oct 26, 2000 (12:28 am)
Obviously the reviews at Edmunds.com have been getting lower and lower in quality. They boast that the M5 has is the most powerful 4 door sedan, but they don't tell you that it is by far from the fastest 4 door sedan. More appropriate would've been it was the fastest 4 door sedan that they have driven. and they try to blame 13.75sec quater mile on greesey conditions. Even in best of conditions a low 13 sec quater mile is embrassing for a 400hp car. A 2000 Celica GT-S does 13.1 with intake and exhaust. The reviewer also thinks that the M5 is faster than the new porsches.. the boxter maybe.. but seriously doubt the M5 is in same class as 911 in pure performance specs.. or even in same class as a boxter S.
#270 of 1037 Sorry by mmcbride1 Oct 26, 2000 (12:33 am)
I meant CLK55 (although there will be a CL55, and it will be a coupe, it won't be as fast as the CLK55).
#271 of 1037 Clarification by brians Oct 26, 2000 (3:19 am)
As I stated in my response #273, Edmunds makes some comments that are off-the-mark. I have seen several reviews of both the M5 and E55, and it's too close to call, however, I would choose the M5. "Not a 4dr sedan on earth that can touch it." Again, the E55 is well within touching distance. Let's face facts, the review is overstated and over-glorifies a glorious automobile. Edmund's writers (the ones that had input into this article) do a little too much sensationalizing. If I owned a C5 or 996, I would not be intimitated by an M5, nor should I be. In fact, I'm sure very few M5 owners, as with all cars, can drive the car to beyond 80% of it's potential. All due respect given to those who can explore those limits. -Brian
#272 of 1037 video links by moopz Oct 26, 2000 (4:54 am)
This should end the speculation.. at least for production sedans. http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/Desert%20Race.mpg another one with Tiff Needell where he says that "the competition from Jaguar and Mercedes has been washed aside," referring to the XJR and E55. http://www.taner.net/movies/Top_Gear-M5_Test_Drive.mpg And regarding the quarter mile times, the general rule is that horsepower adds to higher overall top speed, while torque usually gets you there faster. The E55 has almost 30 ft.lbs of more torque than the M5, yet it is still slower in the quarter mile and to 60 mph. Take a look at the MotorTrend article. The M5 took the top spot in the one-mile standing acceleration test, beating the second-place Aston Martin DB7 by .4 sec and flattening the E55 by 2 seconds. The Porsche 911 Carrera? Somewhere in the middle... I would definitely say the M5 is at least in the same class as the 911.
#273 of 1037 I think what Edmunds meant by denniswade Oct 26, 2000 (2:28 pm)
by "the M5 delivers in 500 cubic-inch, American big-block V8-type portions" is that it ACTS like a big-block American V8 -- not that it has one.

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