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#41 of 1466 re: post #30 16 by billmillsva Nov 09, 1999 (5:14 pm)
Well, after a few weeks of driving on Ronal R-28 8 x 17 wheels w/Michelin Pilot XGT Z4's I can say the following: 1)There is little difference in the smoothness of the ride i.e it didn't really make the ride any rougher. 2)There is little difference in the road noise except on certain road surfaces that can really make the XGT's howel. 3)The overall handling of the car is improved. The eagles would howel when pressed in a turn and you could feel them giving into rollover (a minor vibration)I get none of that with the new tires. However the XGT can squeal when cornering if you push them hard. The 17" Ronals are wider than the 16" stock wheels although I stayed with a 225 tire. A 245 may have been a better choice for dry pavement and cut down on some of the squealing but my tire salesman said he felt the 225 would offer better wet weather traction since it would not have to displace as much water to maintain contact with the road.
#42 of 1466 . by JBaumgart Nov 25, 1999 (5:27 am)
The Wall Street Journal recently published a story about automobile safety, testing various makes and models using a combination of factors, including the results of government crash tests, the cars' active and passive safety features and vehicle weight. Although not all vehicles were included in the rankings, of all the SEDANS that were tested, the Audi A8 came out No. 1 - pretty impressive! The top rated vehicle of all types? Thanks to its massive weight and the basic laws of physics, the GMC/Chevrolet Suburban topped the list. However, the Audi beat out a number of larger and heavier "truck-based" vehicles - most of them in fact - which is somewhat surprising to me considering the A8's mostly aluminum exterior.
#43 of 1466 JBaumgart by rollie Nov 25, 1999 (6:05 am)
Regarding post #43: As I recall, their test is very controversial because they developed their own ranking criteria which is HEAVILY slanted towards the weight of a vehicle regardless of design. The A8 is a safe car but it is also a heavy car even with the aluminum body. The WSJ rating criteria placed a lot of SUVs near the top rankings despite the fact that these things can't maneuver, roll-over if you have to maneuver, are worse than cars in collisions with stationary objects, can't accelerate their way out of trouble spots, etc. I personally wouldn't put much stock in the WSJ ratings. I'm sure there are more established organizations out there doing actual tests that can provide real data on the A8 (FIA NCAP would be a guess). -rdo russell.ollieerols.com
#44 of 1466 rollie by JBaumgart Nov 25, 1999 (6:23 am)
In the real world, with most crashes involving one vehicle smashing into another, relative weight DOES make a big difference. If safety was the one and only thing that mattered, I'd definitely be driving a Suburban, or similar sized vehicle. If I absolutely required the utmost in safety from a sedan, I'd get the A8. Quattro traction, air bags galore, a space-age frame IN ADDITION TO relatively high vehicle weight.
#45 of 1466 JBaumgart by rollie Nov 26, 1999 (6:24 am)
Regarding post #45: All things being equal, yes more weight is better (simple conservation of momentum shows who has the energy management advantage here). However, in the real world all things aren't equal. There are simply too many heavy vehicles that are heavy because they are purpose built (most of which will transmit crash energy throughout the whole vehicle including the passenger cabin), not because of the weight of the safety innovations that went into the design. The Suburban is a good example. It would fare well more often than not because of the combined effects of it's weight and height. If the Suburban was the exact same vehicle with the ride height of an average car it would change the equation significantly. Would you still want to be T-boned in a Suburban in this scenario? My point is that there is a significant difference between a vehicle engineered for safety that happens to be heavy vs. a vehicle that is simply heavy. If I'm in a vehicle and it's the front of my vehicle striking another car then perhaps a Suburban is a good choice in many scenarios. On the other hand, if I'm being struck by a vehicle, I would much rather be in a vehicle with substantial weight that was designed to manage the energy of a crash in a fashion that protects the occupants. In the WSJ weightings, there is not enough distinction drawn between a 4000 lb A8 or a 4000 lb poorly designed SUV because of the emphasis on weight. -rdo russell.ollieerols.com
#46 of 1466 rdo by JBaumgart Nov 27, 1999 (5:52 am)
I didn't save the article, but I do remember that the A8 WAS ranked higher than ALMOST ALL trucks and SUV's, including many with a HIGHER RIDE HEIGHT and MORE WEIGHT. Therefore, the formula for determining the rankings must have drawn a distinction between vehicles that are merely heavy and those that are in your words "designed to to manage the energy of a crash in a fashion that protects the occupants." You also said that "If the Suburban was the exact same vehicle with the ride height of an average car it would change the equation significantly." But the whole point of the article was to assess the real world safety of various vehicles by taking into account their ACTUAL ride height and vehicle weight -- the way they are built without changing any equations -- IN ADDITION TO the other usual safety factors, including government crash tests. As you said, the Suburban "...would fare well more often than not because of the combined effects of it's weight and height" ... PLUS it's seat belts, air bags, heavy frame, etc. But if it collides head on with a loaded dump truck, I'll bet on the dump truck! (This is my last post on this - we have drifted off topic, as my original point was that the A8 was the top rated SEDAN.)
#47 of 1466 NHTSA Tests by billmillsva Nov 27, 1999 (7:00 pm)
My salesman told me the A8 was the only Luxury Sedan to get a 5 star (the highest available) NHTSA safety rating for both passenger and drive positions. I checked the DOT web site and sure enough it was true, which speaks well for the A8, however ..... the only other European luxury/performance manufacturer listed was Mecedes and the only models I could find listed were the C230 and the ML. Hardly equal vehicles as far as this type of comparison goes. The A8 was only rated for front impact as well, no information was available for side impact. I guess Audi didn't want to sacrifice two cars for the test(s).
#48 of 1466 I'm with JBaumgart by buffndm Nov 27, 1999 (7:11 pm)
The point is that the A8 can maneuver and accelerate its way out of trouble while also providing the safety benefits of a heavier vehicle. Sounds like a great combination to me.
#49 of 1466 No argument here re:post 49 by billmillsva Nov 30, 1999 (12:50 am)
I agree. My previous vehicle was a '99 Chevy Tahoe LT 4x4. Now I drive a '97 A8.
#50 of 1466 probabilities by audiaudiaudia8 Dec 14, 1999 (3:22 pm)
I and my family have driven SUV's for the past 9 years primarily for safety. How do I justify buying a 2000 A8? Because your probability of getting hurt is equal to the probability of being in a crash multiplied by the probability of injury resulting from the crash. All of these crash tests and articles only deal with the second of these two probabilities, and enough's been posted on this point. In my view, the probability of getting in a crash with an A8 is orders of magnitude less than being in a crash with an SUV -- assuming an identical driver and speeds. Due to its superior handling and lower center of gravity, it is obvious that an A8 will be far less likely to rollover or leave the pavement. Emergency responsiveness will allow for on-pavement avoidance maneuvers that would be impossible in an SUV when a potential crash with another vehicle is imminent. The fact that the A8 also excels in occupant protection, i.e. the second probability, is just icing on the cake.

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