Last post on Sep 16, 2012 at 10:07 AM
You are in the BMW 7-Series
What is this discussion about?
BMW 7 Series
#940 of 1317 7 problems
Nov 14, 2003 (5:41 pm)
My brother mentioned that the WSJ had an article
on the new 7 and its problems.(maybe he meant USA
TODAY)He said BMW was buying back some of these
cars on condition they sign an agreement not to
disclose the buy back. The experience I've had with my 1998 740i is less than steller. It has
65000 miles. I thought all the bugs were being worked at when It was going in for repairs on an
average of every four months. Under warranty this
was fine except for the inconvenience. Catalytic
converter(both),replace LCD instrument panel,
rear suspension, center tie rod, thrust rod
bushings,induction cleaning kit, a/c compressor
($1376 for the A/C alone) My mistake may have been
not buying the extended warranty.Love the ride
but my next car will be a Lexus, boring drive and
#941 of 1317 Yes, the WSJ also had an article
Nov 14, 2003 (8:10 pm)
Terry79, yes, the Journal also had an article on the not-selling-well 7 series. (Its main points were that sales are down in the US and non existant in Europe.)
F1Buick, extremely well put point. Its a bit like musical chairs. Someone is going to get caught out when the music (read: warranty) stops and until then the organizers of the game have to have artificial incentives to get people to take a chance and play it.
Maybe thats one reason why if you "don't have to" be seen in a 7 Series/E Series/etc. you just say screw it and buy a Tahoe/Expedition with a roof and leather. That (and a primary and secondary housing market on speed) is IMHO why a lot of high income people are happy enough with a loaded up SUV.
#942 of 1317 musical chairs
Nov 16, 2003 (12:37 pm)
great analogy! Moreover, my point is that if everyone KNOWS it is a game of musical chairs, then the market is going to reflect that knowledge. Those wanting to sell will have to pay buyers to play the game, and if I were a buyer I would wonder where that cost is being passed onto me. It can be hidden in not-so-obvious areas, e.g., risk of holding the bag if the car is totaled and the insurance won't pay off the loan balance.
I doubt there is much cross-shopping between luxo SUV's and german autobahn blasters. The SUV's are for people who view driving as chore, the effort of which is to be minimized. They are buying SUV's now instead of the Cadillacs they would have bought 40 years ago, partially because of the perceived utility of the SUV body style and partially because of a highly misguided belief about the "safety" of AWD.
Regarding Terry79's problems, that certainly is an unusual and troublesome list. Perhaps now that the warranty is gone he might shop for another repair option beside the local dealer's service department. The list is unusual enough to suggest a bit of "overdiagnosis" by the shop, e.g., how did BOTH cat converters happen to go bad, when they are independent of each other? One would be unusual at that mileage. Two seems almost impossible.
#943 of 1317 Why Everyone Doesn't See the 7 Series Aspirationally
Nov 16, 2003 (3:38 pm)
F1buick, I agree with your first point that many of the people in the Luxo Suv's are the grandchildren of Olds98 and Caddy owners (and some of the others are recent immigrants whose grandparents probably, literally, rode water buffaloes in the Camau Peninsula).
But, I think that some of the Luxo SUV owners would be driving autobahn blasters if there was more AWD available (8 million people live in New England alone, ya know) and less perceived depreciation and mechanical bugaboos. Afterall, many of us did drive these cars 20 years ago when the cars were simpler, there weren't any Suvs, and the housing market (both for a primary residence and a vacation place) wasn't competing for our dollars.
On the other hand, owning a Luxo Suv also fits one's lifestyle if you identify with the first generation of Americans who feel comfortable going out in public in jeans and a sweat shirt. Lets be tactful and call it the Home Depot Generation.
#944 of 1317 If AWD was the problem
Nov 17, 2003 (10:43 am)
then Audi would have sold 50,000 A8's. But in 5 years they sold less than 10,000. And how many 4matic models does Mercedes sell? Not many.
With SUV's I think the AWD thing combines with the high seating postition to create a false sense of security. Phrases like "center of gravity," "roll center," and "unsprung weight" are not understood, and people think they are buying safety when they most definitely are not.
I agree with your "home depot" analogy. But as a person who has owned a number of pickups, I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would buy an SUV for perceived utility. My sister just bought an X5 and it has less room than my 750, and way less than my Park Avenue. There really isn't that much room in the back of most SUV's short of a suburban.
I feel like SUV's are for people who kind of want a truck and then try to compromise by buying something that is not a truck and which really can't do what a truck can. I'll take a big trunk or an truck bed over the tail end of an SUV any day.
Nov 17, 2003 (7:41 pm)
F1Buick, nice point about the high seating positon giving a false sense of security because of the higher center of gravity, etc. etc. Not so good point about the lack of room in an SUV. Even your sister's X5 could have handled the 2' X 8' rigid insulation panels I picked up tonight at Home Depot. In a 750??
I know it isn't popular to suggest it, but when the weather is snotty (six months a year in New England) or snow is banked on both sides of the road I'd rather be in an SUV than a 750. Good visibility, clearer, dryer windshield, more "freeboard", etc. One good splash from a truck in a 7 Series and you'd think you were out in a Boston Whaler Montauk without GPS.
Nov 18, 2003 (12:50 pm)
I don't use the 750 for hauling. My Park Ave has a 19cf trunk, a center pass through that let's me haul dimensional lumber up to 16' long (really, i've done it with a red flag stapled to the end piece), and a trailer hitch for the really big stuff. The 2x8 foam would't have fit through the pass through, it would have fit in the trunk with 3' sticking out, but its just foam so you tie it down and go.
I'm a regular home handyman, and I've been without a truck for almost a year. Know what? you can work around it. I miss being able to just throw stuff in the bed of my truck, but (and this is a big point) you can't do that in an SUV either: the utility of an enclosed cargo space is limited.
I'm planning a sheet rock run in the next couple weeks and I'll have to rent a trailer for $35. The SUV couldn't handle the rock either. If I added removable roof racks to the Buick, I'd have just as much capacity to haul sheet rock as somebody in an Explorer. But the other 99.9% of the time I'm driving, I wouldn't have to deal with a lumbering, roll-happy, poor-braking SUV (I'd say gas-eating, but nobody with a V12 can complain about that).
Regarding snow, I'll admit that as a Pacific Northwesterner I don't have the same issues as someone in, say, Maine. However, the east coasters and canadians on my bmw board consistently post that with traction control and full manual shifting, their 7's perform just fine.
I've driven/owned a number of 4wd's and while its personal opinion, I think 4wd is over-rated except for the very worst snow storms (at which point the 2wd has to chain up). A front wheel driver with traction control and winter tires is a pretty darn good snow car. rwd is passable with the right technique.
While I agree that 4wd and SUV's have unique qualities that are occassionally useful, I think that in 99% of driving situations those qualities are not useful or, worse, detract from overall safety. How many times has BMW been sued for a rollover in a 7 series? Darned thing is a corvette with 4 doors. How rollovers do we see with SUV's? A lot! And these poor, ignorant people were buying "the safety of 4wd."
#947 of 1317 Building TV Ratings Thru SUVs: If It Bleeds, It Leads
Nov 18, 2003 (6:21 pm)
F1Buick, right on. Boston's Channel 7 has the above motto (borrowed from an affiliate in Miami) for story placement. Seemingly a day doesn't go by but somebody in a SUV hasn't rolled over on an off ramp on Rt. 495 and we get to see it in color at 6PM and at 11PM.
#948 of 1317 Tying this to the 7
Nov 19, 2003 (7:49 am)
We all know about the Firestone/Explorer debacle, where a tire would blow, the driver would lose control, and the SUV would roll. In some of the incidents the cars were only going 45mph or so.
A couple years ago I had a tire blow in my 750 at 75mph. Stability-wise, it was a nonevent. The car didn't lunge, jerk, or dart. Heck, i drove a few hundred yards before I was even sure what had happened. Then I just pulled over onto the shoulder and changed the tire.
why the difference between the two scenarios? Well, for one thing the 7 is a corvette with 4 doors, with a very low centre of gravity. the second thing is that i didn't invite trouble by slamming the brakes or jerking on the steering wheel (which, i suspect, was a common reaction by those unfortunate explorer drivers).
So which vehicle is safer? 4wd will assist traction on a few snow days. even on the east coast, the amount of time in a year during which that 4wd actually will be helpful is a small fraction of your total driving time. the low center of gravity of a passenger sedan, especially a 7, is a fundamental dynamic advantage is that is ALWAYS helpful (even in snow) and is there ALL of the time. I'll take a feature that is an advantage 100% of the item over one that is only an advantage 1% of the time (and is a disadvantage the other 99%) any day of the week.
#949 of 1317 sat radio
Nov 24, 2003 (8:43 pm)
Finally bot a 745il. Does anyone know if the $75 sat prep fee is all there is for sat radio. Dealer doesn't know since it is so new. I am guessing there must be additional hardware but they can't tell me. They are still learning.