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Wagons Subaru Crew Subaru Legacy & Outback Subaru Outback VDC
2084 messages, Last post on Jul 31, 2009 at 8:04 AM
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Andy - I just bought a wintergreen VDC from Wentworth Subaru in Portland (no sales tax). Optional equipment incl: security system upgrade, rear spoiler, mats, cross bars, and cargo tray. Final price was $30,650. Using Edmunds TMV, it should have cost lightly above $31k. Another good dealer is Larry Miller in Salt Lake City. IF you are a Costco member and use their Auto Program, Larry Miller will quote you a price of $30,650 as well with similar options. I researched a number of dealers and these were the two best that I found for pricing. Don't believe those dealers who say they can't deal below MSRP - just take your money someplace else. Good Luck. |
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Also see the Car and Driver review from this month to get an opposing view. They did not give it a very flattering review but stopped short of trashing it. While I agree with some of the Brown review.... 1) Zoom factor. The car does not go zoom. Its faster then the H4 but 8.8 sec to 60mph in transmission killing hands of C&D the is not very impressive. Thats slower than the Lincoln Town Car/Grand Marquis. Definately not in the ZOOM range. Also they report their best time....In my hands it was in the high 9s in the very similar LL Bean version without killing the transmission. May have been in the mid 9s if it was broken in. C&D reported it as 0.8 sec faster to 60mph the H4 (I think). I think its about 1.5-2sec faster to 60 than the H4 but my time for the H4 is 11.5sec with the auto. However, the H6 is smoother and quieter under acceleration. BUT not much difference at highway speed. You will be turning about 500 more rpm at 80mph but its only a little bit more quiet. The wind noise is the same as the H4 and the predominant sound you hear at that speed. I'm really not sure why some have said its much more quiet than the H4. Our H4 is very quiet. Mostly what we get at highway speed is wind noise. Same as in the VDC. On the plus side the VDC is a little faster to 60 than the Passat 4-Motion which has about 20hp less. Although both are better than the H4 and probably get about the same gas mileage. Where I thought he H6 was nice was on highway merges. It pulls much better than the H4 35-75mph. Still if you push the H4 hard it pulls just fine but not as well as the H6. The H6 is better and each person will have to decide if they wany to pony up the extra bucks or buy a different brand. 2) Interior. Its not all that different from the regular Ltd. You do get nicer looking leather and the fancy steering wheel but its really not all that different. Nothing to make you go WOW! The seats in the LL Bean felt the same as in my wifes 2k Ltd. So I dont think there is any thing in there to make you go WOW! At least not over the regular Ltd. Please keep in mind that the Acura TL costs a ton less than the VDC. The interior of the VDC is on par with other $30k+ cars. Better than some and not as good as others. If you look in the Car and Driver review they put it very well: It would be a great car in the $25k range but its not that great of a deal in the $30k range. I think its still a pretty good car in the very low $30s but I would not pay any more than that nor would I rush out to buy it. Once you decide you can pay more than $30k for a car you have a lot of options from Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi, WV, Volvo, and SAAB. In most cases if you finance over 60months the difference will be less than $50-100 a month (depending on what you can put down). If you can afford $30k+ the extra per month is not a significant amount of money to drive what ever you want. I'm sure lots of people will buy the VDC but I think its a little more car for lots more money. |
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I think you pretty much nailed it. Unless you "have-to-have" an AWD wagon, there are a lot of very nice cars in the upper $20K - low $30K range. The Acura TL sedan and CL Type-S coupe immediately come to mind. I've driven both the TL and the CL (not the Type-S), and they both feel much quicker than the LL Bean I drove. Bob |
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Andy: if you feel that the traction and stability control are a bit overkill, take a gander at the LL Bean model. I've seen them in the low $28k range, with freight included. 8.8s is not remarkable, but the pricier 4Motion C&D tested took 9.4s in the same test. Also, while the 4Motion is rated for 17/24 mpg, the H6 gets 20/27, and considering both burn premium that can really add up. The Soob is really the only reliable AWD wagon you can get. VWs aren't quite there yet. Neither is Audi. Volvo XC's are notoriously problematic. Also, the 2001 Passat is around the corner, and it'll get no more power but 150 extra pounds to carry around. That means the Soobs advantage will only get bigger. Other alternatives? Get the H4 and supercharge it. Plenty of shops in Cali. Also look at a 5 speed manual Legacy GT, and a Forester S Premium while you're at it. All are fine, reliable cars. -juice |
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Andy, The LL Bean model is very much worth looking into as an alternative to the VDC model based upon your comments. I drive one and find it thoroughly enjoyable so far. As for gas mileage, I filled the tank for the second time this afternoon. Recorded 19.96 mpg. Conditions were mixed travel and temperatures ranging from low 20s to single digits. This was .5 mpg better than first fillup. We have had snow in the midwest for several days now and, OBVIOUSLY, no difficulty! If I can share any LL Bean thoughts with you, feel free to e-mail me at <yellowbikedon  compuserve.com>.Don |
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I took delivery of my VDC a week ago. Like many people interested in these cars (like Andy), I could find no one who could give me an honest impression from an owner's perspective. I'll be glad to share any thoughts with those who are interested. I wrung my hands for weeks comparing the Passat, XC, and A4. My initial thoughts/recommendations are: If you are interested in a status car - DON'T buy an Outback VDC! I've owned 3 Audi Quattro's, a Volvo Turbo, etc. and I've never before stood back and said "damn, that doesn't LOOK like $30k!" If you want your $30k+ car to get admiring glances or envious stares, I suggest you look at one of the fine European offerings in this niche. If you are looking at versatility and foul-weather capability, the Outback may be for you If you are interested in high speed, seat-of-the-pants acceleration, or high-speed canyon runs, DON'T buy an Outback VDC - you will be disappointed! The car was designed for balance, not speed, and to that end I must say I'm very impressed with what Subaru has done. The car has handled very well on any road surface or situation (and it's been through a lot already!), but it's not going to have the feel of an Audi or VW. Then again, given the Wilderness tires and 8" of ground clearance, this is to be expected. Of course, you performance guys (hey, my other car is a sports car  ) want a manual tranny anyway, so go on to the Audi/VW posts! If you interested in the L.L Bean, do yourself a favor and at least take a look at the VDC. The difference is not just "traction control and a fancy stereo". The VDC system has a rear power bias, so those of you who like the feel of a rear-driver might appreciate the feel of the VDC over the LLB. Also, the VDC has much better sound insulation - you can't tell on a 5-mile test drive, but if you keep one overnight, you'll hear the difference. And of course, it's hard to argue that it's not cool to have a car that knows when you hit something like "black ice" (possibly before you do), tells you about it, and instantly tries to correct any dangerous car movement caused by the situation. All in all, I'd say the Subaru VDC (status-appeal aside) stacks up very well against the other cars from Europe. Sure, the seats aren't quite as nice as in the Volvo, and you can't get Xeon headlights like on the Audi, but the cost of ownership on the Subie will certainly be lower, and the VDC (IMHO) is the best "foul-weather" vehicle of the bunch with the most all-around versatility. VDC Guy |
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What a sweet engine, all the way above 6000 rpm, and possibly too quiet for sport driving. The auto trans and AWD waste quite a bit of power, so the engine mostly enhances luxury. The saleman said they are trying to qualify a more powerful variable valve timing version. Stability/Dynamics control is a luxury in itself, though technological rather than materialistic. Porsche decided to use viscous coupling in their Carrera 4(AWD) as the basis of their stability management(PSM). I wonder if the two companies are sharing technology (boxer engine H6 & viscous coupling AWD, SUV, ... Subaru roadster?), since Porsche owns part of Fuji Heavy Industries (parent of Subaru) My wife wants to dump our 2K Odyssey EX for the VDC, but I also thought it would be a better deal at $26K same as the Ody, only if our three kids can ride in the VDC back seat, in peace. I am still waiting to the new Impreza WRX arriving in March. |
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I took delivery of my VDC a week ago. Like many people interested in these cars (like Andy), I could find no one who could give me an honest impression from an owner's perspective. I'll be glad to share any thoughts with those who are interested. I wrung my hands for weeks comparing the Passat, XC, and A4. My initial thoughts/recommendations are: If you are interested in a status car - DON'T buy an Outback VDC! I've owned 3 Audi Quattro's, a Volvo Turbo, etc. and I've never before stood back and said "damn, that doesn't LOOK like $30k!" If you want your $30k+ car to get admiring glances or envious stares, I suggest you look at one of the fine European offerings in this niche. If you are looking at versatility and foul-weather capability, the Outback may be for you If you are interested in high speed, seat-of-the-pants acceleration, or high-speed canyon runs, DON'T buy an Outback VDC - you will be disappointed! The car was designed for balance, not speed, and to that end I must say I'm very impressed with what Subaru has done. The car has handled very well on any road surface or situation (and it's been through a lot already!), but it's not going to have the feel of an Audi or VW. Then again, given the Wilderness tires and 8" of ground clearance, this is to be expected. Of course, you performance guys (hey, my other car is a sports car ) want a manual tranny anyway, so go on to the Audi/VW posts! If you interested in the L.L Bean, do yourself a favor and at least take a look at the VDC. The difference is not just "traction control and a fancy stereo". The VDC system has a rear power bias, so those of you who like the feel of a rear-driver might appreciate the feel of the VDC over the LLB. Also, the VDC has much better sound insulation - you can't tell on a 5-mile test drive, but if you keep one overnight, you'll hear the difference. And of course, it's hard to argue that it's not cool to have a car that knows when you hit something like "black ice" (possibly before you do), tells you about it, and instantly tries to correct any dangerous car movement caused by the situation. All in all, I'd say the Subaru VDC (status-appeal aside) stacks up very well against the other cars from Europe. Sure, the seats aren't quite as nice as in the Volvo, and you can't get Xeon headlights like on the Audi, but the cost of ownership on the Subie will certainly be lower, and the VDC (IMHO) is the best "foul-weather" vehicle of the bunch with the most all-around versatility. VDC Guy |
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We researched the 2K OB for weeks and decided to wait to test drive the VDC. The day one arrived at the dealer we test drove it. Once we drove it the difference was obvious. The pick-up was far better in the 6H not to mention the quiet ride and the sound system. Several people had called about holding a white VDC and that just happened to be the color we drove and liked. The dealer was hard pressed to come down in price because "he could sell the white one for sticker price many times over". We said fine we would go to a dealer in the next town and get a winestone. Boy did he drop the price! We spent just under $31K. He wanted nearly $33K with the upgrades. The thing that surprised me the most is when after the papers were signed the dealer said "oh by the way it takes 92 grade gas" I hadn't counted on that with the price of gas the way it is! I am getting about 20.5 mph right now. I've had it a month and have about 1500 miles on it. Lots of Christmas shopping! Another thing that I'm not happy with is the back seat is not wide enough for 3 adults. I can take my 3 children as long as they don't grow too big! Everything else is wonderful. I am especially loving the heated seats in this weather! And the interior stays warm much longer than our other cars even after we have been out of it for a couple of hours. Go figure! We live in an area that it is important to be able to get over a "mountain" to get to work no matter what the weather. Our first ice storm found many cars stuck spinning their tires while I was able to easily move around them. I felt so safe in the VDC that I had no question that the car would get me home safely. |
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Well put! I've driven an LL Bean and a VDC, and I have to agree with your comments. I've posted my comments on these two vehicles in several areas, and I have to admit, I was somewhat disappointed in the performance of the vehicle at first. But given the role that this vehicle assumes, it makes sense from Subaru's standpoint to offer it as such. Still wish for a 5-speed tip-tronic tranny though. Bob |
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