Last post on Dec 06, 2011 at 12:51 PM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Wagon
#11401 of 11746 Re: 1993 Subaru legacy... [xwesx]
Oct 30, 2006 (7:22 pm)
This is the first time it happened, we drove it home, parked it, it sat for a day and a half and then would not start. We have since pulled out and checked the relays in the engine compartment, we did not put back new ones, the car then started. At this point, we have out fingers crossed that maybe one was loose. What would be your thought? Thanks for answering. T
#11402 of 11746 Re: 1993 Subaru legacy... [crosstheborder]
Oct 31, 2006 (2:06 pm)
Oh boy. Well, both of your situations are different from what I thought might have been a similar issue to the one I once had. T, yours is quite a bit different in that it happened while the car was sitting for a while so it was not warm. The problem acronis described was at least while/just after the vehicle was used, but the fact that it still does not start means something more is wrong than my problem, but it still sounds similar.
Here goes: For acronis, I think it might be a mass airflow sensor failure - meaning it has just went kaput altogether. The part itself is about $350-400 new. I suggest this because my problem, reasonably isolated to the MAS (and has not happened again since it was replaced), showed the following symptoms: The car would stall occasionally while at an idle - sometimes in the driveway or a parking lot, sometimes at an intersection. When attempting to restart, the car would usually not start. I could crank it until the battery died, and nada. But, wait 5 minutes and try again. Sometimes it would start, sometimes not. If not, wait another 5 then try again... repeat until successful. The longest it ever took me was 25 minutes, or 6 attempts. The non-start problem was something different from the MAS, though. It persisted after the stalling problem was (assumedly) fixed and only disappeared after replacing the knock, crank, and camshaft sensors - though an actual failure by any of them was never recorded by a non-start event, so I do not know (with certainty) which was the actual source of the problem. I am inclined to think it was the camshaft sensor.
Basically, though, my understanding about these sensors is thus (perhaps Steve, Craig, or someone more knowledgable about them can chime in if I am off base here!): The timing sensors tell the car when to send spark to the plugs, so if there is a failure there, then no spark or mis-timed spark means no firing. For the MAS, it feeds back information about quantity of air/oxygen entering the intake, so misinformation or no information feedback will cause the car to run too rich or lean. At idle, this effect is most pronounced and can cause the car to stall.
There could be other problems here, like a fuel injection issue or feedback from one of the other systems, but I would think that if spark, fuel, and air were in the cylinders at the same time, it would at least stumble when trying to start. An easy way to check for fuel is to pull the fuel line off the output of the fuel filter and turn the ignition to the "on" position. Route the line to a container, of course, and have a helper to witness, as that fuel pump is going to spray fuel quickly and you only want to turn it on for a moment before shutting off. If there is no fuel, you know the issue is with the fuel pump!
Those are my thoughts, hopefully you can dig through them and find something helpful.
#11403 of 11746 Re: 1993 Subaru legacy... [xwesx]
Nov 02, 2006 (8:23 am)
Good description of parts and function. The only thing I would add is that some systems (depending on year, sophistication) also have a separate idle-air circuit. When the throttle plate is fully closed (idle), this separate pathway meters a fixed amount of air around the MAS/MAP sensor, and sends an estimate of flow to the ECM, with additional feedback from the cat O2 sensor to fine tune it. I guess they figure that the MAS/MAP sensor accuracy at very low CFM is questionable, so provide a different measurement method.
#11404 of 11746 1999 Subaru Legacy Hesitation
Nov 14, 2006 (2:55 pm)
My 1999 Subaru Legacy has us stumped. We get a hesitation during acceleration, sometimes a violent shake in 1st gear. (The car has yet to die during one of these episodes.) The hesitation is variable, ie there is no correlation between the hesitation and the time of day, weather, ect. The only correlation is that it generally runs fine when we take it our mechanic. The most frequent code we get is for the oxygen sensor. We have replaced the 1) throttle position sensor, 2) idle control valve, and 3) oxygen sensor.
#11405 of 11746 Navigation decision
Nov 15, 2006 (1:04 pm)
Hi: Thinking about purchasing the 2007 LL Bean model in a couple of months & would like some advice from you experts on the navigation system option? Does anyone have the system & is it upgradable? What features do you find useful? Just can't decide if it's worth the extra money. Thanks Lawrence
Nov 15, 2006 (3:05 pm)
I have a 90 Suburu Legacy (177K miles), so I have finally decided to add another car and of course I want another Suburu Legacy, but I want it in RED. I am extremely disappointed that there are no red 2007s.
Why would they have discontinued red? Who can I e-mail, call, beg, threaten, whatever to get it in red?
Now I'm wondering do I need to wait until the 2008s to see if they bring red back. I would rather not, because my poor 90 Legacy needs a break from long trips. I do have someone looking for a new 06 Legacy GT for me in red.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
#11407 of 11746 Re: Red 2007 Cars [90subbie]
Nov 16, 2006 (5:34 am)
Well, you cannot do much... You have to pick a color from five colors they offer. Email SOA or call 1-800-SUBARU3 and let them know that you like red color. Regarding 2008, based on SOJ color palette, I highly doubt they will bring back red (unless SOA have a tonne of requests for red).
#11408 of 11746 Re: 1999 Subaru Legacy Hesitation [sublegbri]
Nov 16, 2006 (9:50 am)
Spark or fuel, as they say. Gotta be one of those.
If you haven't already, try new spark plugs and spark plug wires. If they are original they are overdue for replacement. Beyond that, look at the ignition coil ($80 or so). Also try a fuel system cleaner like Techron.
#11409 of 11746 Re: Red 2007 Cars [slazenger]
Nov 16, 2006 (12:00 pm)
Yep. Subaru seems to be going with these washed out, bland colors... maybe they appeal more to the masses. I, too, prefer colors with vibrance - deep and glistening reds, greens, and blues.
This is actually one of the primary reasons I am steering away from Subaru for our next purchase. My wife is dead-set on one though, so who knows. Even though I am the one paying for it and working on it, I seem to have very little sway on her opinion.
#11410 of 11746 Impression of the L.L. Bean
Nov 20, 2006 (3:45 pm)
Well, I just got back from test driving the LL Bean Outback. Please don't flame me for this because I LOVE my old Subie. My experience of the Outback was.... smooth ride, great pick-up, nice interior. But... I found it hesitated on the highway between 3 and 4 rpms... It happened a number of times. I found the cornering very loose and sloppy compared to my old Subie and my Saab. There was also some wind noise which was surprising. Features that I would want on both the Bean and the Limited model would be on-wheel controls... just on the Bean... a light that stays on for a bit after you stop the engine.
I'm wondering if others have felt the hesitation and if it's just a function of the six cylinder. This car had very few miles on it.