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#215 of 613 Update by cjsb Apr 18, 2004 (4:48 am)
Had the ZTW out for a couple hours yesterday. After spending this much time with it, I found I liked it better than I remembered from previous, shorter tests. It looks like it's time to firm up a price. Jim - You mentioned dealing way down on the Focus. My situation is I've got three dealer quotes, and each of them knows I've got these other quotes. They are all very close to one another in both cash purchase and financing numbers. I'm inclined to believe they're being about as aggressive as they can get as they know they have to compete with the two other dealers. Thoughts? Any Canadian ZTW owners out there with some pricing details? As per the Kia and Korean built vehicles, you don't need to convince me of it's potential value. One of my current cars is a Hyundai (bought new Dec/99) and it's been dollar for dollar a tremendous buy when compared to some of my previous cars (see Audi). Though the Spectra, and Mazda 3 hatch which I've driven, will/do not have the cargo area of the ZTW - something that is important to me. I'm not crazy about the 3's styling, in hatchback trim - a little "boy-racerish" for me. But friends of mine love it. So there you go. The 3 is a great car however, any way you look at it. One last note; I was dissapointed to find out that the crossbars for the roof racks on the '04 ZTW are no longer standard (were for '03). They are a $383 option!! A little annoying. Cheers. Replies to this message: retiredguy (Apr 19, 2004 4:36 pm) 01bzdrvr (May 09, 2004 8:46 pm)
#216 of 613 by dudleyr Apr 18, 2004 (2:25 pm)
Get Thule cross bars for less than $150.
#217 of 613 cjsb by jimjps Apr 19, 2004 (1:49 pm)
On Canadian pricing I think I might check cars4u.com if you haven't already. Looks like a ZTW without options is 20,050 C$ with administration fee but before PST and GST. Maybe you are already in this ballpark or better on price. If not, I may suggest checking them out for reference and I think they do financing too. I have to agree with you on the cargo capacity, the Kia will probably be a dead ringer for the Mazda3 on cargo space and the Mazda3 is a bit over-the-top on styling for my taste and the 05 Kia Spectra5 is still about 3 months away from launch anyway. I checked a Mazda6 wagon yesterday and I measured between wheel wells and it is tighter then Focus! It narrows down to 42" in one spot whereas Focus is 45". Overall though I think the cargo on both cars is pretty comparable. My understanding is the rear suspension on the Focus wagon was modified to maximize the cargo area and this explains that exceptional cargo bay for a small car. Looking at he 6 wagon I could just see big $$$ in initial cost, insurance and gas money. I am curious, did your ZTW test car have any long starts? The one I tested may have just sat too long with about a thimble of gas in the tank. Re: cross bars, there are also aftermarket cross bars that clamp on to the side rails and extend past the rails which is great for the hard core outdoorsman. The width then can extend as wide as the car and then you can get a rocket box AND 2 mountain bikes or a kayak up there which you would never fit on the narrow factory crossbar. Maybe this is the type that dudleyr refered to and several mfg make these. I think the factory bars may fit just a rocket box, or just 2 mountain bikes for example. Anyway, the factory bars must be marked up pretty good and maybe a negotiating point if you want them.
#218 of 613 Re: Update [cjsb #215] by retiredguy Apr 19, 2004 (4:36 pm)
Replying to: cjsb (Apr 18, 2004 4:48 am) I bought our ZTW at the end of April 2003. It did not have the cover for the storage area. The dealer gave me one at no cost because the brochure I had listed it as standard. You may inquire about that if you think it is something useful to you. Replies to this message: 01bzdrvr (May 09, 2004 8:46 pm)
#219 of 613 by cjsb Apr 21, 2004 (12:58 pm)
Jim: Thanks greatly for the cars4u tip. They're working up a quote for me. Even if they don't beat my other quotes, I had a great chat with one of their sales associates. He was a pleasure to deal with. And in a strange twist, the cars4u office is a short walk up the street from my office! And Toronto ain't all that small (almost 3 million people). So here I am down the street without a clue...geez, guess I'm not as on the ball as I'd like to believe. Do you mind elaborating on the 6 wagon as compared with the focus? Dealers in my area don't have 'em yet? The ZTW tester I had delivered no long starts out of the 7 or 8 during the drive. Nor did the other two testers I've tried in recent weeks. So hopefully yours is an isolated incident. As for the crossbars, I've had them thrown into the negotiations mix. Thanks for the cargo cover feedback retiredguy, my dealer says it is indeed standard and I'll make sure it's there if I buy. Anybody out there know if three children's seats can fit across the back? I'd be surprised if this could be done, but if so, it'd one more notch in favour of the focus.
#220 of 613 Mazda6 by jimjps Apr 21, 2004 (10:59 pm)
Actually I didn't drive it. The local dealer got their first one in and were prepping it. I brought my tape measure to check out some cargo dimensions which I mentioned earlier. I sat in it. Interiors are quite nice but when it looked like the cargo was not significantly bigger (if at all) than the Focus I wasn't even interested in driving it. You may have seen the Mazda6 thread here on Edmund's wagons and I'm sure some of those guys have driven it. It definitely has plusher interior then the Focus but the $$$ is nearly 2x and that killed it for me. By the way, how did you find the front seats? A non-issue?
#221 of 613 by cjsb Apr 23, 2004 (3:13 pm)
Front seats seem to be fine for me. A noticeable difference from my other two cars, but neither better nor worse. I think they'll work O.K. for me.   A superficial check on pricing suggests that the price of a base 6 wagon with no options other than auto trans. will be about 12-13k more than the ZTW here in Canada. So no leather/moonroof. And as you say, if the cargo area of the focus is bigger, it's tough to swallow the extra $$$ for the 6. Though I will acknowledge many other great features and benefits to the 6. How was the room in the rear seat as compared to the ZTW?   Hey, I'm just glad to see wagons finally back on the horizon again. When I was 17 I bought a wagon as my second car and they've always held a soft spot in my heart.
#222 of 613 ZTW vs M6 cargo by jimjps Apr 24, 2004 (11:15 am)
My gut-feeling on cargo volume is about a tie. The Mazda6 wagon rear seat bottom does not swing forward, it just slides forward a few inches as the back swings down to make a slightly better fit of the two. So no problem with the rear cushion limiting the front seat sliding back which could be an issue with the Focus. Then again, the rear seat headrests in the M6 seem to interfere with front seat slide-back, but they must be removeable. But it also indicates that the Mazda6 floor is a little higher in the first place (level with a rear seat back on top of the bottom) whereas the Focus cargo floor is lower (level with the folded rear seat back only. - I hope I am explaining this clearly). Herein probably lies the confusion on how many cu ft the Focus really has. Do you measure up to the forward edge of the folded rear seat back, or do you measure up to the back of the front seat? To me the Focus is more useable because it never gets less then 45" wide, where the Mazda6 goes down to 42" at one point. I'm not sure but I think the Focus has the edge in floor-to-ceiling-height. But in overall volume the M6 makes up some in width between the windows and probably a bit longer "cargo box". If I had to guess, assuming the M6 is indeed 60 cu ft, then I would say the Focus is not 73 cu ft, nor is it 55. My guestimate is 60-65. For really hauling stuff when you don't need rear passenger space you can remove the Focus rear seat cushion with just 2 screws and leave it home. The Mazda6 rear seats do seem a little bigger but I think that is mostly width. Note: Mazda6 wagon roof rails are options - probably dealer installed whereas the Focus rails are standard factory installed and I recall they are rated 250 lbs which is more then most vehicles which have rails rated about 150 lbs.   OK, I think I am slowly talking myself back into to making an offer on the Focus wagon.....
#223 of 613 Cargo Capacities by carguy04 Apr 24, 2004 (1:21 pm)
I surfed the web to find cargo stats, and found the ZTW is listed at 55.8 with the seat folded, and 35.1 with the seat up. The Mazda 6 Wagon is 60.4 seat folded, and 33.7 seat up, almost the same as the ZTW. The Mazda 6 Hatch is 58.7 seat folded, and 22.0 seat up. The Mazda 3 Hatch is 31.2 seat folded, and 17.1 seat up. Decisions, decisions. I haven't drove the ZTW yet, but hope to find one at our local auto show tomorrow to check it out. I also found stats for 2 other cars I like... Subaru Outback is listed at 68.6, and the Honda CR-V is 72.0. Hope this info helps those of you who are considering the ZTW. It's still on my shopping list.
#224 of 613 Cargo mystery by jimjps Apr 26, 2004 (1:51 pm)
The Focus Cargo mystery is that a few sources now put it at 73 cu ft and it hasn't actually changed in all these years. A rough measurement puts it at about 4 ft wide (avg width) by about 3 feet high by about 5.5 feet long which is ~66 cu ft. NOte though that if you slide the front seat forward you can get over 6 ft length. I don't know if EPA measures all avail room but some have said the 55 cu ft seems small and I have to agree. I started taking a tape measure to the dealer and it seems the Focus has more cargo room then some "bigger" wagons. The confusion may have to do with how far forward the measured "cargo box" ends. Do they terminate at the flip-forward rear seat cushion and maybe they don't terminate until the front seat back on cars that have non-flip rear seat cushions??       I have to correct a previous error I made regarding new Jetta. It is not out in Europe yet - looks like they will only be made in MExico and imported to Europe and it is still some months away. The neue Golf has been in EU for a half year now.

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