Last post on Nov 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Impreza, Subaru Outback, Wagon
Sep 24, 2003 (11:32 am)
It's a dealer-installed accessory. The 04 Impreza price list shows it's about $35 + installation. You can also add alloy wheels, ground effects kits, spoilers, fog lights, audio components, etc. The accessory list is 3.5 pages so you can customize as much as you can afford.
Not sure about the blue colour you saw--there's a different blue for 2004 and it's kind of an electric blue, although it might have some purple in it, I didn't look too closely. That would have been my second choice.
Subaru probably will have the 2005s out in the spring but even if that's April that's still 7 months away. I could have waited until the spring myself but I figured if I was getting an AWD car anyway I may as well have it for the winter. Looking forward to trying it out in the snow.
Sep 25, 2003 (5:15 am)
Since you said a couple weeks ago that you wanted to get the Probe paid off, if you can do it by spring or so, you could get a nice end-of-year 2004 at that point. Say May or June or so. I can see it now, you KNOW it's the smart thing to wait a bit, but the other part says NEW CAR!!! Must have!! Tough internal battle, isn't it? <g>
Yes, Impreza is TONS better than a Sunfire or Focus, at least I think so. They shouldn't even be considered competitors.
As to the lease vs. buy thing, there are some great articles in Edmunds under the Tips and Advice, as well as the Ownership section. They will really help you understand the pros and cons of leasing vs. buying. For several reasons, I'm leasing my 2004 OBS. Will I keep it longer than the 3 year lease? I just might, but I like having the option of just bringing it back and getting something else. Since my previous vehicle was leased, if I had wanted to purchase the OBS, I would have needed quite a bit down to avoid being "upside-down" on the new car. It pretty much forced me to lease, because of that. Not that I'm complaining, but there are clearly pros and cons to it. Do some study this winter, since you have the time. Read everything here on leasing and purchasing decisions. As to models, the 04 has so many improvements over the 03 that it was a no-brainer to me after I did my homework. Take a stop to that local dealer that Brent mentioned and do some test driving. Also, check out the Forester. Same platform, but they serve different needs. Might be worth considering.
#2301 of 3121 Impreza TS vs Focus
Sep 25, 2003 (7:15 am)
I know I'm going to gain a lot of enemies with this, but what the hack ...
Unless the AWD is an absolute must, I'd think a little bit more about TS vs Focus. I've recently had a chance to spend some time in both (as a passenger). There are some things to consider. Interior - Impreza is small cramped and veerryyy cheap inside. And that one pathetic cup holder in front of cooling fan, what's that. Its interior is poorer than most of equally/less priced cars. Focus is bigger and nicer inside (to the limit of its price class).
I've just checked a Canadian Ford's site, comparably equipped Focus (5 door hatchback) with the traction control (which isn't AWD but gives you some edge there) will cost you at least $3000 less, not to mention way more room to negotiate and likely better financing.
It's believed that Subaru is more reliable than Ford. Now, it's up to you to decide how much reliability can be bought with $3000+. Worth mentioning, Focus comes with weaker engine and, consequently, better fuel mileage.
Block heater is usually dealer installed accessory in Canada and will cost you around $225 unless you negotiate it better. It should also give you an idea how much everything else is going to cost afterwards.
Before everybody gets on me for the above, I should mention that this is purely my feeling after sitiing in both vehicles. And, yes, I'm driving Subaru (Forester). So if you wnat to argue, don't argue with me, argue with the facts.
Sep 25, 2003 (9:15 am)
On the facts front, the price spread between the base Focus ZX5 and the Impreza TS is $1,435. And as I posted above, the block heater costs $35.91 plus installation (one hour's labour). I've found that dealers out west tend to include the heater as part of some sort of winter or severe weather package, but in Ontario it's an inexpensive a la carte item.
Opinion-wise, I've actually driven a few Focuses and although they always impress me with their handling and ride, I always come away disappointed with the interior design and quality of materials. The Impreza is no Audi either, but I personally wouldn't place the Focus above it. The Ford is certainly bigger inside but the Impreza is far from cramped for me at 5'10". Best way to see what you think and how you fit is to try them both out. You can literally see Highbury Ford from Sube of London so that should be easy to do.
Subkid is right that you need to decide if you're willing to spend extra money to get AWD, because one thing everyone can agree on is that there are other good small FWD cars out there worth considering.
#2303 of 3121 Re:Advice & Opinions
Sep 25, 2003 (10:51 am)
Good afternoon gentleman...
cbmorton,thankyou for your wealth of information.
damish003,I'm impressed,you remembered a few posts back about my situation with paying off the Probe GT.I found in interesting what you said about your leasing situation when you purchased your last new car...you didn't wanna get sunk...interesting scenario.
The Probe is working well so I will keep driving it for now and hopefully no major repairs come due!Spring won't be that far away really...(whatever I wanna tell myself)
Yes I will go see the same salesperson Brent did here in London and do some test driving on my layoff week,week after next.Thanks damish003,talk to you again!
subkid,what parking lot do you want to meet at,I'm gonna give you a fat lip!...hehehe,just kidding.
No really,I came down to 3 choices for my next vehicle(used vehicles at the begining until I looked into Subaru more),Mazda Millenia S,Toyota 4Runner SR5 and Subaru Impreza line up,,preferably the wagon version.I ruled out the 4Runner due to fuel economy,the Millenia because it is front wheel drive only,and the Impreza became my choice.AWD IS A PRIORITY FOR ME,besides the fact that I can purchase a Focus through my A-plan at work.When I lived in Calgary I test drove a 02 Outback Sport and was extremely impressed.The weather was Subaru weather too,,,-20C snowing on snow covered roads with hard packed ice.I always remembered that test drive,,,was at night too.
Don't be fooled by the American traction control systems,,,there is no comparison to that of full time all wheel drive system,especially AWD developed by Subaru.Traction control in American made cars basically regulate how much pressure you put on the gas pedal,so you don't spin the tires.You can do this yourself,if you know what you're doing.
As for the Focus made in Mexico,and another plant located in the US,,,it is an ok car,expensive for what you get though.I have driven all versions of them including the 03 SVT.If I am going to put out the bucks (over 20 grand)for a car,I might as well pay for something I can totally use for all weather and utility purposes.(I travel across Canada readily)
These are facts,,,the Focus rides and handles nicely with the 16 inch wheels that is.My best friend has a 02 ZX5 manual and it is fun too drive.That's all.Fuel economy isn't impressive,the interior turn signal sound is annoying as hell(sounds like a kid sucking on a soother),has no balls on the highway with a full tank of fuel,two guys and a gym bag,,,hey,but we look good trying to pass someone!
#2304 of 3121 Re: On the facts front
Sep 25, 2003 (11:46 am)
Focus priced on the web site includes freight and taxes (before GST) . Impreza, with its $22995 doesn't. My experience in the west is that dealer is going to slap you with $1600+ for any price published on the internet. It goes like this:
- $225 dealer installed accessories (heater and etching)
- $1100 freight and PDI
- $300 doc fee
- $75 advertising
- 120 air and tire taxes
This is what they'd try to pull. What you pay is the other thing, even though, it looks that there are too many people willing to go for it, so it's not exactly buyers market around here (
As I said, I went for Subaru, but this is only to set a record straight.
if I'm not mistaken, you asked if we thought that TS is a steel for the price compared to Focus. Well, I merely answered your question, withe the answer you didn't want to hear, though . But I'll repeat. Of course, Impreza is better vehicle than Focus, but I don't think it has a price/value advantage everything else taken into consideration.
Sep 25, 2003 (12:39 pm)
Actually I was comparing apples to apples--before freight and air tax the 2004 ZX5 at $21,560 is $1,435 cheaper than the TS. A 2003 Protege5 with air is $1995 cheaper, so the incremental cost of the AWD over a competing FWD car seems to be $1,500-$2,000. I don't see a TS wagon very often so probably a lot of people do the same math and decide that they don't need AWD after all. But enough people still choose AWD to keep Subaru doing well.
Sounds like it's expensive to buy a car in the west, although no GST in Alberta offsets it. The Subaru dealer here turned out to be a real straight shooter. $995 for freight/PDI and the only fee was a $50 admin fee. Didn't try to sell me any add-ons and didn't even ask for a deposit on signing. Easiest deal I've ever done.
Sep 25, 2003 (1:33 pm)
I guess, you eastern guys are lucky. Dealer's attitude around here is actually the only thing that could have turned me towards other brands. I bet on the Subaru's reliability, meaning that I hope I wouldn't have to deal with them too often.
And FYI, we do have GST on the west - those are just fairy tales that we don't pay taxes
Sep 25, 2003 (5:19 pm)
Oops, I meant PST. I've spent a fair bit of time in Alberta, although I guess you wouldn't know it if I can't remember which tax is which.
I think I lucked out with the Subaru dealer here being accommodating and easy to deal with. I was very close to going with a RAV4, but over at Toyota they had zero product knowledge (they were asking me for advice on where to get 2004 model info from) and zero interest in selling me the vehicle. Don't think I'd have ended up in an OBS if it hadn't been for the no-hassle way the local dealer dealt with me. They're only a two-salesman operation, so maybe they don't have time to fool around. Guess there's still something to be said for a smaller shop.
#2308 of 3121 Hey cbmorton
Sep 27, 2003 (7:55 pm)
cbmorton,just wondering when you get your new car?Probably by tuesday Sept.30 for month end I'm sure.Let me know what you think after a few miles if you don't mind?
If you find any info about the '05 models let me know at any time.I'll keep my eyes on this thread for updates.