Last post on Nov 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Impreza, Subaru Outback, Wagon
Apr 10, 2003 (5:49 am)
Juice, I know just what you mean. Size-wise, it will be quite a change. Just so you know, I've only had the Jeep for almost 3 years. I leased it as a used vehicle. But you're right...I think the extras in the OBS might more reflect some things I like in a vehicle. I only took the Jeep off-road a couple times in the years I've been leasing it. I'm one of those who got it for the image, to tell you the truth. Now, I'm trying to be more practical in my next vehicle. Where I live, snow is a constant. Heck, it snowed two days ago (NW PA). I drive all over the NE US every month of the year. In my mind, I NEED all-wheel drive. The Subarus seem to have quite a good reliability record, especially compared to my Jeep. The extra ground clearance of the OSB to the TS is a plus, as well as standard fog lights. I kind of like the Toyota Matrix, but something just doesn't feel quite right sitting in it, as compared to the Subie. Not sure what it is.
I'm really surprised at how much cargo room the Impreza has. When I take into account that my Jeep loses interior space because of the spare tire placement, the useable space is pretty much the same. About the only thing I'll miss is the ability to see over other cars. I can live with that.
Now, the only question is the financing. I'm trying to decide whether to lease a NEW car for three years, or lease a 2002 model for the same. If I go used, I won't pay for the first years depreciation, but the warranty will run out before the lease does, meaning I'll need an extended service contract. I know the Subie is more reliable than the Jeep, but I am very glad I got a service contract when I leased the used Jeep, as it paid for itself in the first six months. Anybody got a thought on that?
Thanks for your time, folks.
Apr 10, 2003 (5:50 am)
I have it and it's worth it. While it won't be better than some aftermarket systems, it's definitely an improvement over the stock system.
Bring a CD to the dealer and go for a test drive.
I put 73,000 miles on my '97 OBS and I didn't have the extended warranty. I never had to pay for any large repairs out of pocket. Of course, YMMV and don't forget that you can get the extended warranty just before the standard warranty runs out.
Apr 10, 2003 (9:27 pm)
is so cool!!!
But far be it from me to steer someone away from the OBS (outback sport), my previous car ('97), and one of the best I ever owned.
The Matrix will have a LOT more room inside, believe me. The downside is the power is way off in the AWD - 123 hp in a 3000 pound vehicle. And I'm not sure you can get a manual with the AWD. So you will be SERIOUSLY in the slow lane.
If you want some semblance of the power you have in the JGC, you should go with the OBS. Either way, you get a car with character!
PS I paid about $1K extra in '97 for a 100K mile warranty for my OBS, and never used it at all. With these cars and just a pinch of luck, you can skip the extra warranties....
Apr 11, 2003 (7:11 am)
The AWD Matrix has just 123hp, it won't get out of its own way. And price one, the OBS is cheaper, even with 165 horses.
I do like the 130hp FWD Matrix, and the XRS, if you don't need AWD.
Lease (or even buy) used and don't worry about the warranty. The powertrain is covered for 5/60, so just keep it within that. The powertrain covers most of the stuff that does go wrong on Subies, if that even happens.
Apr 11, 2003 (7:15 am)
Handling on the matrix can't be very good with it's high profile...
Apr 11, 2003 (9:04 am)
a lot of body roll in the Matrix, because it is high-sided and tall, but it makes up for that by being very tenacious through turns. You may feel it is going to slip, but I have never been able to make it do so, or even make the tires squeal. It has the same exact size tires as the OBS. And it weighs a little less.
FWIW, Matrix's body roll in tight turns is only a little more than my old OBS, but I know the new OBS has larger wheels and shorter tire sidewalls (55-series instead of 60), and I think it has slightly tighter suspension than the old model too.
#2146 of 3121 Damish003.....Matrix/Vibe
Apr 11, 2003 (7:23 pm)
I'll tell you exactly what doesn't feel right about the Matrix/Vibe. Not only did I sit a bunch of times in both at dealerships...I test drove a Matrix (Pontiac wants an appointment......Ha!)
What isn't right is the steering wheel / driving position.
I don't know about everyone (I'm 5'11"), but I would have to drive with my arms stretched straight out or maybe just holding on to the bottom of the wheel. I don't know why Toyota even bothered to put a tilt feature...the adjustment is hardly noticeable. If it telescoped...it may be OK. I told the salesman..."until they do something about the steering wheel, there is no way I would buy a Matrix" The arm rests on the doors are useless as well as your forearms just slide right off.
It's amazing how Toyota put so much emphasis on silly things like chrome dash trim and a fancy electronic red gauge cluster, but forgot about making driving the car comfortable to drive. There were also funny noises coming out of the dash vents during the test drive.
Sure, the Matrix has a lot of neat features and storage places that the Subaru does not. But the Subaru has a NORMAL driving position, a nice size engine with torque... and you don't have to worry about the mirrors breaking off, because unlike the Toyota, they foldaway!
Apr 11, 2003 (11:07 pm)
uses flush outside mirrors because they produce less noise at speed, and a smaller engine to achieve much better fuel economy. C'mon, let's not bag on Matrix too much, these are both really good cars.
I would say to anyone test driving a vehicle they are serious in to really pay attention to how comfortable the seating position is for driving. Many people say the corolla and Matrix's seat cushion is too short for their legs. So check that out. I think the seat material in the Matrix is better (less hard, more comfortable) than that in the OBS, but I think the OBS material may be more durable over time, I am not sure.
BTW, I have got 13K+ on the 'Trix now, and I have never heard funny noises coming from the dash vents - maybe it was something weird in just that car?
Apr 12, 2003 (7:05 pm)
The fixed mirror is quieter argument doesn't work for me. Maybe it's true...but fixed mirrors are cheaper for the manufacturer... and that's the real reason they are on many cars. I drive cars with folding mirrors (Volvo, Mercedes, Mercury) and they don't make any noise worth noting.
At least put springs in the mirror like on Cavalier, Malibu so it will give when someone bangs into it.
Apr 12, 2003 (11:39 pm)
well, the only two cars I can make a direct comparison between are my '97 OBS and my current matrix, and there, it is noticeable that the outside mirrors produced more wind noise in the OBS than they do in the Toyota. If they are cheaper for the manufacturer, I guess it is a win-win situation.
I am not sure what it implies, but Toyota actually uses both kinds, pretty much reserving the folding mirrors for the trucks. I think this is because the cars are expected to have lower interior noise levels, while the trucks with their high profiles and squarer front cross-sections are bound to create more wind noise naturally. Since they sell cars that cost more than their cheapest trucks, it would not seem to be JUST a cost thing.
As far as the springs idea, the effect on wind noise would be the same as a folding mirror, because the "noisemaker" is the little crack where the mirror splits away. The wind gets in it then swirls backing out, which makes noise at highway speeds.