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Hatchbacks Mazda 323 Mazda 323
419 messages, Last post on Nov 22, 2009 at 12:45 PM
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Could sure use some help from someone more knowledgeable than I: Car in question is a 1989 Mercury Tracer, but these have a Mazda 323 engine. It overheated, and I'm pretty sure the head gasket blew. (Milkshake oil, water drip from exhaust, etc.) I decided to try liquid glass on the head gasket - specifically, "Bar's Leaks Head Gasket Repair" - but I'm still having problems. I should mention the steps I've taken so far (some of which were just for maintenance): - Replaced the thermostat. - Back-flushed the cooling system. - Flushed the heater core separately. - Replaced the radiator cap. - (And as I said, added liquid glass.) What's different now: The good: - It starts and runs better. - There's no more sign of coolant in the oil, nor oil in the coolant. The bad: - Smoke is still sputtering out of the front of the engine in some spots, which I take to be unsealed cracks at the head gasket. - The heater isn't producing hot air. - The coolant overflow reservoir still bubbles (presumably from exhaust gas.) I'm wondering now if the water pump is bad, and that maybe the liquid glass can't fully circulate to where it can seal the cracks. The radiator hoses stiffen up when the engine is running, which I would have thought meant that there's pressure and that the coolant is being pumped through the system. Except that the top radiator hose gets warm/hot while the bottom hose never really does… I'd rather not replace anything else without knowing that I've nailed down the cause though. Any suggestions? Thanks much in advance.
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Replying to: listerine (Jun 27, 2009 2:15 am) |
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Replying to: listerine (Jun 27, 2009 2:15 am) So education time first. As an engine ages, the round cylinder wears into an egg shape. One side from the power stroke, the other from compression stroke. When you over heat the block, that shape also distorts. I suspect over time, you will find oil usage/leakage to be up especially over time. Now add the uncertain possibility of something else cracking down the road, which does happen in such cases. You have an engine with an uncertain potential of total failure down the road. When it comes to rebuilding such an engine, the head is usually scrapped because there is only the dye method of finding cracks which is so limited in confirming results. The block can be magnafluxed to look for such small cracks, but at 20 years of age, it would be scrapped also, because of cost of labor. That brings down to a total engine replacement. So, in order to really determine what you have would be a total hit and miss mission with the prospects of total failure down the road. Now to add to the problems besides parts availability. The engine design itself is such that, ignore one problem you get a snowball effect of damage. For example, ignore the timing belt and it snapped, there went the entire engine with the pistons hitting the valves bending them. It took very little to force this engine very quickly to the scrap pile. Now for the positive. If you have a 5 speed standard or 4 speed, this car could still be worth rebuilding. An auto, I would not waste my time. Ours is a 89 323, coming up on 300K miles. The first engine crank broke at 138K which we decided to scrap it for a new crate engine. Still a top performer in the stable after that decision right down to the new a/c put in a few years back. It comes with the cost of sticking to a good pm schedule and a careful eye on it that became knowlegable of it over 10 years. Best to you, whatever your decision. You may wish to review past posts on this engine before doing anything. Better to be informed before spending your money. One trouble spot in its history has been breaking crankshafts, the other has been the distributor. Use the search engine in this forum to gain more info on it. Search distributor then crankshaft. On the other hand, should you decide to replace this car, take a few walks in the junk yard and look at cars that are not wrecked. Note the age and mileage it comes in at. Now a days, if it does not make at least 200K on the odometer, it is a piece of junk before it gets in the yard. One such brand that makes 20 years and 200K plus very consistly is Toyota. I have an 86 Tercel in service still. Most of them have been junked.
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Replying to: girlcarbuilder (Jun 28, 2009 6:08 am) Although that does raise a question: how can I tell if there's a bigger problem beyond the head gasket? I'm no car expert, and I've never had a serious engine problem before, but I would think it would run horribly, if at all, and it isn't doing that. Anyway, I'm thinking I need to verify water pump function to know that the Bar's is circulating to the cracks. The radiator hoses stiffen when the car's running, but does that really mean anything? If it does, then why doesn't the bottom radiator hose get warm? What kinds of tests can I try here? |
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I have a 1991 323, front-wheel drive, on which I'd like to patch an exhaust hole. I am a bit perplexed by where to place the hydraulic floor jack and jack stands, however. The manual I have (Chilton's) says: "When using stands, use the side members at the front or trailing axle front mounting crossmember at the rear for placement points," but there is no illustration, and I'm a bit challenged on the terms in question (as well as the best placement point for the floor jack to set up for the stands). Can anyone out there provide any insight? Thanks, Stewart
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Replying to: ahab_2001 (Jul 04, 2009 6:18 am) Have an 89 323 almost 300K on it. Should be similiar. Few points to jack up on it. To patch an exhaust problem, I would drive it up on ramps usually here. Otherwise, in the front, there is usually a cross member somewhere underneath holding up the engine. On ours, that member goes from under bumper assembly to the firewall. I do not use it though because it gives an uneven lift. I usually center on the front sway bar under the front bumper. When you do try yours, watch to make sure you are not crushing anything. I center between the two front rubber frame mounts. I use the front tow hooks to put jack stands under it. In the rear, where the axle assemblies fasten to the center of the car is usually a good point to jack up. Use plenty of common sense here and don't get into a rush until you get more used to the car doing repairs. That applies to any new vehicle you encounter. that will always serve you well when working on one. Never assume anything, cause in this trade, everything changes fast! Buying a new car here and we added factory service manuals to the purchase. plan to keep it a while, might as well have correct info! hopefully another 300K miles/ 20 plus years. I have also found that not all service manuals have all the info you need. Check the library for more books with info you need in them. It never ceases to amaze me how incomplete Chilton's and Haynes can be at times.
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As i'm familiar with this board and know some great informed ppls & minds at work a quick question. My girlfriend is looking at buying an older Geo Prism, which looks to be the same car as Toyota Corolla. 1991 with 89,000  $1,000 clean as can be and well maintained w/very little rust. Any comments? (and yes looking into the proper forum now =-) Art
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Replying to: thevine (Jul 06, 2009 10:03 am) 91 Prizm, may be a Toyota. Not positive though. Price seems steep for an 18 year old, so that means current owner needs to prove maintenance a bit more before I dropped any money. If he knows nothing, the car will talk! So it is a serious talk with the car if the owner has not kept a maintenance file. Yup, I'm nuts. We elect people into Washington who shoot other people, so why can't an old wise woman???? give advice on used car buying? Dealers hate me at times, because I fly under their radar until they known me. Then they know, I take no bull. Who drove this car, sounds low mileage for a 91? Even at 89K a lot bad can be done to a car. How long does girlfriend want to keep this one? The longer, the better. Pull the oil dipstick. How does it look. Hopefully not changed. The condition of the oil will tell you a lot. Ask who and how often they change the oil. What kind of oil they use. If it has been changed, pull the PCV valve and open the oil cap. Take a strong flashlight and look inside valve cover. Should look clean with no gunk buildup. If you see a gunk in it other than a light varnish, walk away/bargain lower price. If a/c works, reconsider carefully. Penzoil and Quaker State are bad for this. Most Toyota heads and camshafts get replaced if worn out at a later date. Been there and have that problem on the 86 I rebuilt. Valves nicely adjusted, valve train looked good and passed inspection at overhaul. 30K later, she is tapping away. Valves are still in adjustment. I have researched this one the "hard way!" Check the radiator. If you have an antifreeze tester, use it. How does the coolant look. Hoses show any signs of replacement? Probably not at 89K, but their age renders them questionable. What you are looking for is what kind of care has been given to this car. Auto or manual. At this age, I prefer manual. Fact is, not many sell today, because most people do not know how to really drive! Auto, pull the dipstick. Color of fluid should be a nice pinkish red. Smell it. If it smells burned, that is bad news. This applies to discolored oil. Did someone install an additional transmission cooler? If so, was it for towing? If not for towing, it was a PM move to extend the life of the transmission which upgrades the maintenance score as far as a purchase is concerned. What about last fluid changes? Tires, matching or different brands. 2 of these, 2 of those or all different. Same is best. Check the date codes, if any on sidewalls. If they have a lot of tread and no date code/over 4-6 years, you have a dry rot problem coming, but a true low mileage car. Still worth considering. Four different kinds of tires, someone did not care much for this car. Fire it up. How does it sound? Hit the air: pop in a thermoter in the vent with a/c in recirculate. If she gets cold and you live in south, she is easily worth a grand in my book. From there, use common sense on how it drives. Do not hesitate to see if you can have a mechanic look at it. If told no, I would be a bit concerned. Check for body work. Even if it has had some, at this age it makes little difference other than it is sound. Write down your inspection findings and read over them before you decide. Like my father told me years ago, if it is for sale, there is a reason. It is up to you to determine that reason. So Dr. Holmes, hopefully it was driven by a little old lady and it is a true "creme puff." If so, move on it. You are wise to think carefully even on a low mileage. The more positive answers you get the better. But be aware, when it comes to maintenance records, any thing goes on used. Even some of us good mechanics have been burnt on deals. The dealers get burnt all the time. I have been burnt. Exactly why we thinking hard about new. Getting too old to mess with these things. The more you know beforehand, the better. One reason why my husband does not get screamed at when the car breaks, my department! So who am I going to scream at? Best to you on this endeavor, involve her if possible on the deal. If she is involved learning and making the decision, the less she can scream at you if all goes wrong! The more informed she is on what she bought, the better as well. |
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Replying to: girlcarbuilder (Jul 04, 2009 4:55 pm) Cheers, Stewart |
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We bought what was described as the complete 3-ring binder Shop Manual for our Mazda 323. Its table of contents lists the last section (50) as Wiring Diagram. But the last page in our manual is section (40) Special Tools. Could someone please scan in the Wiring Diagram and post it as an image file so we can download and print it to complete our Shop Manual? Our 323 has the B6 EGI (not DOHC) engine with 4-speed manual transmission. I and my female friend who owns this 323 would be very grateful for this help. Her father bought the car new, drove it for a few years, then gave it to her. So its entire history is known. I has traveled 87 thousand miles to date. During the last thousand miles it developed a stalling symptoms like what numerous other reports describe. So I'm trying to chase down possible causes. We do not have access to the "SST" (Self Diagnosis Checker) tool and the nearest Mazda Dealer, about 60 miles away does not have one either. Thanks for any help with that Wiring Diagram (50) scan. LoveLearn |
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