Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 2:14 PM
You are in the Toyota Celica
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Celica, Coupe, Hatchback
#1514 of 1560 Re: 2000 celica gts/ fuel type? [gjenn]
Apr 21, 2010 (9:17 pm)
Toyota spec says must use 91 Octane fuel. The engine is a higher compression engine. Lower octane fuel would ignite early, causing knocking and reduce power.
Unclean burn also leaves residues in exhaust sensors, lighting up sensors' warnings. Typically the Catalytic converter sensor would warn of low cleaning efficiency.
High-octane fuel would cost may be 10% more, but you should get at least 10% higher mileage out of it. Also, Toyota engineers know what the car must run on. If it could run on cheaper fuel, they would already specify it in.
Every time I deviated from MFR recommendations, I got unknown problems later on.
Mar 13, 2011 (3:58 am)
You sound like you know a fair bit about these years of celicas. I own an 86' GT hatchback with the 2S-ELC engine, what can you tell me about this model. When I got the car last spring from a good friend($1000) he had just put in a crate engine(now has 5xxxkm), rebuilt tranny and he did a whole bunch of other stuff. It seems as if theres a draw on my battery even when the car is parked and not running. There are no lights staying on and no shorts that I can find, any ideas? its been a great car... reasonably quick and the 4-way independant suspension is great on curvy mountain roads. I love the car and would hate to sell it because I cant fix a simple problem. Any idea what these are worth in pretty good shape and less that 1/4 mill..km? I NEVER see them around. I know they are rare because the GT, ST161(chasis), 2S-ELC was only made in 1986 but just how rare are they?
#1516 of 1560 Re: 80s CELICAS [redneck_racer]
Mar 13, 2011 (8:35 am)
You can narrow down the area of the drain by connecting an ammeter in series with one of the battery cables, and removing fuses one by one, until the drain stops. Since the problem exists when the key is off; most circuits will not be energized under that condition; so there are only a small number of circuits that might cause the problem. Once you find the circuit; it will be necessary to isolate, inspect and separately test all the components that are protected by that fuse.
When doing current draw tests; it is important to bear in mind that the vehicle's computer is designed to draw a constant small current (less than 60 milliamps) at all times; to preserve the computer's volatile memory data. So you're always going to see at least that much of a draw. This computer draw will run the battery down in about 6 weeks to 3 months of storage; on a vehicle with no electrical problems. So it is just not like the good old days; when batteries held a charge much longer..
The brake lights, cigarette lighter, possibly the radio, the security system, the 4 way flashers, interior lights (including the glove box light) and the headlights are the most likely suspects. Also, any add on electrical accessories might be connected to be live when the key is off.
Another very common source of such drains is a shorted diode in the alternator. You can test for this while the ammeter is connected by disconnecting the heavy power cable to the alternator (being very careful to not let the metal teminal on the cable touch any metallic objects), and seeing whether that stops the drain. If it does; the alternator must be replaced. There is an epedemic of badly remanufactured alternators and starters on the market. I have become so fed up with having to remove and return newly purchased defective rebuilt alternators that I now only buy alternators and starters from NAPA parts stores. And I have none of those problems anymore.
#1517 of 1560 Re: 80s CELICAS [zaken1]
Mar 13, 2011 (1:21 pm)
I did not know that the comp. has a constant draw, is it possible that it could drain eough in less than 6 months? Ive heard that the connections in the starter are commonly burnt and dont make good connections, I took it appart and sure enough, burnt connectinons. Could the combination of the constant draw from the comp. and a poor connection in the starter be preventing the car from turning over. The car has aftermarket gages and it seems to need around 12.5V for it to turn over. My battery is new in sept. last year and is an energizer max with high cold crank amps. I will test my alternator, when I have the car running, it does provide a charge to my battery. Im quite sure that its not my accessories. Thanks for your help.
#1518 of 1560 Re: 80s CELICAS [redneck_racer]
Mar 13, 2011 (3:00 pm)
The draw from the computer is guaranteed to run the battery flat in 6 months. In fact; it will probably do it in 4 or 5 months.
Turn on the headlights; if the lights are dim or do not work; you'll need to have the battery charged. If the lights come on; try to start the car and see whether the lights dim or go out. If the lights dim or go out when trying the starter; the battery needs to be charged, or the battery cable clamps need to be removed and thoroughly cleaned. A tapered reamer type cable service tool is the best tool for this. And some almost invisible corrosion on battery cable clamps and posts will totally prevent the starter from running.
If the lights stay bright at a time when the starter does not work; there is a relay called a starter relay, which is usually the problem. Despits what you have heard from the rumor mill; Toyota starters are some of the most long lasting and reliable starters in the industry. Burn marks notwithstanding.
#1519 of 1560 Re: 80s CELICAS [zaken1]
Mar 14, 2011 (1:12 pm)
I already have done the headlight test... I learnt the trick a long time ago. The lights did dim, therefore, when I was trying to start it, it was drawing electricity into the starter relay(solenoid), its often mounted directly on the starter but ford has a fire wall mounted design with a movable pole shoe starting motor and some imports have permanent magnet starters... diesels have gear reduction starters to provide more torque. My car has the solenoid on starter design(commonly seen in chevy's). I took my starter appart and the solenoid works fine but the secondary system which provides power to the starting motor had burnt connections and the starting motor wouldn't work. I cleaned the secondary connections and bench tested the starter, it worked like new. Is there anything I can do to keep those connections from getting burnt? some kind of highly conductive flux or something? I wont replace the starter because of this, it will have the same problem either way and its like $40 for me to completely rebuild my starter myself. Why would they get burnt to start with? too much current?
#1520 of 1560 Re: 80s CELICAS [zaken1]
Mar 14, 2011 (7:10 pm)
How rare are the 1986 Toyota Celica GT Hatchbacks w/ the 2S-ELC, SOHC, 2.0L and the 4-speed overdrive automatic tranny?
Jun 06, 2011 (3:15 pm)
The 2000 Celica has about 88,000 miles, and I am doing probably four thousand miles a year nowadays. The brakes (the first replacement set) were toast, and all were replaced including calipers. The water pump and serpentine went bad for the second time. Seems this pump needs replacing every forty-thousand miles. I would think they would put a beefier one in for this high compression engine. Perhaps they saved weight by skimping on the water pump also. I finally got tired of getting hit on the noggin so I had the hatchback shocks replaced. The driver's electronic door latch was starting to fail in cold weather and was replaced. This list cost $1520 from my new best-friend mechanic. (Dealer wanted $2700 after 10 % discount!)
Years ago the moonroof was completely scratched up, and was completely fogged over by the free gas station car wash years ago. I did not know the effects of that big nylon bristle brush until 1 minute too late. I thought the moonroof would have to be replaced at a high cost, so I let it go. Since everything seemed to get fixed lately, I decided to investigate this. I bought the 3M Headlight Restoration kit. I started sanding the moonroof with the 300 grit, and had an "oh crap" moment. I did not really know if the severe sanding I had just done could be rubbed out. So I went through the next 4 steps on the area I had touched, and it ended up looking pretty good. I then applied only the last two steps (a gray buff pad and rubbing compound) to the rest of the moonroof. The result? a couple stains are left, and there are minor swirl marks throughout. But the entire piece is see-through again, and has something like 80% clarity. I could have sanded out the remnants of stains from bird droppings, and worked more on the swirl marks. However, I only have a 550 RPM drill. I think some of the swirls are left because of this - the slow drill grabbed the surface a little too much. So the result is a moonroof that looks decent and the small flaws resemble the rest of the ten year old car and would not stick out to anyone else.
I would recommend the 3M kit to anyone for this purpose. I was terrified of sanding something on the car, but the kit works for the late-model plastic moonroof, and worked fine for a newbie with a slower drill, but lots of time and patience.
The headlight lenses are a little fogged up, and since I had the kit out I applied the last stage of rubbing compound to the lens that was in the worse condition. After 1 minute, it looked better than the other lens. I repeated on the good lens. I am sure if I took the time to use all of the stages that the headlamps would look like brand new.
A remaining "problem" - The fiberglass parts are de-laminating. My opinion is that Toyota used a clearcoat on the plastic, and the clearcoat expands at a different rate than the plastic part and the paint. This would explain bubbling on the side-mirrors, and near total de-lamination of the top of the spoiler. The bumpers have some spider cracks in them at this point. If you are not in a snowy climate you might never see something like this. If the heat alone in your area has the same bad effect, I would be curious to know about it.
I could buy a new wing, front and rear bumpers, and perhaps paint them black. Most of the cost is labor of installation, so I it would probably be the right thing to do to buy new materials rather than re-use the old ones. In terms of color I think a match to the original red is futile and I think the car would look out of place if new paint on the plastics was too different a red tone from the rest of the metal paint. I do not have a good reason to address this today, so this repair will just be hanging out in the back of my mind.
The car has new Bridgestone Blizzak's as of last winter, and new Bridgestone Potenza RE760's, the only 16" Summer Tire that Tirerack had.
I can't complain - the car sounds and drives like brand new. Perhaps I will get a set of red customized mats from floor mat express sometime. I'm sick of paying $90 or so for factory mats that just shred like a chew toy with normal use.
End Car Rant
#1522 of 1560 Re: Updates [guitarzan]
Jun 06, 2011 (11:16 pm)
The water pump life you described does not sound normal. This motor does not have significantly higher compression than many other motors that are out there. I assume your 2000 Celica has the 6th generation 5S-FE (also designated as ST-204) motor. This motor has a 9.5-1 compression ratio; which is very much middle of the road as compression ratios go. By comparison; many BMW's have 11-1 compression ratios (and the 1998 only Celica 3S-GE (ST-202) motor had an 11-1 compression ratio; along with 200 HP and a 7,000RPM power peak. By comparison; your motor has been detuned to meet emission standards; and produces about 135 HP and has a 5,400 RPM power peak. So if you inferred that the compression ratio on your motor produces a quicker than normal throttle response, which is stressing the water pump; this simply is not true.
However; if the belt tension is adjusted too tight; that will significantly shorten the life of the water pump bearings. So will using low quality coolant, or using coolant mixed with tap water (rather than the distilled water recommended by Toyota), or using coolant mixed in less than 40% proportion. Some coolant available today comes pre-mixed with 50% water. If you bought that type of coolant; and then mixed it with equal amounts of water; it would shorten the life of the water pump.
Some aftermarket water pump brands do not meet Toyota's quality standards. These pumps will not last as long as the original part.
Jun 07, 2011 (9:54 pm)
The motor for my 2000 GTS is the 2ZZ-GE = 11.5:1 compression. (The GT engine is 1ZZ-FE which I think is 10:1???)
I thought the heat the engine produces may be greater as a result of the compression, and strain the pump more, but I was just guessing. More along the lines of your suggestion of a fast throttle response, the response of this motor is huge, and I think the peak power is at 8400 RPM. So is the problem as straightforward as the pressure on the pump's parts during fast acceleration through the high RPM range?
2ZZ-GE Power Graph
Neither the dealer nor my new mechanic were surprised at 40,000 mile replacements for the water pump. Apparently I was the only one saying, "What the heck people????*($))!#^! This is one cool car, and spectacular engine, but a handful of things have been somewhat quirky!
I originally suspected belt tensioner problems for this model, but I was probably unduly scared by a TSB that exists for it. The mechanics, both Toyota and independent had no concerns about particular problems with the tensioner.
The first pump replacement was OEM and done by Toyota. With its short life, and the cost of repairs at Toyota getting out of hand for a 10-year old car, I went with another mechanic. I do not know if he used an OEM part or not, but for the low cost I am fine with either and would consider an aftermarket pump to be a neat experiment at this point.
Up until now I always had flushes done at the dealer, which I trusted for various reasons, so I think they would follow the recommendations for coolant and water. At what point in history did the car companies figure out that minerals in water caused problems in the engine, and start recommending distilled water?