Last post on Dec 14, 2000 at 1:52 AM
You are in the Hatchbacks - Archived Discussions
This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hatchbacks Host for directions! discussion.
#23 of 32 what exactly response
Jun 27, 2000 (3:01 am)
Only1harry (is this like obi1kenobi?),
The 1.8T usually boosts from 0.5bar to 1 bar turbo pressure (from 7.25 psi to 14.5 psi, I hate this standard system!). It also alters the fuel maps. I don't know about the rev limiter, some chips do, some don't, just depends on what chip you buy. It does not cause the "check engine light" to come on. Reliability is no problem, most chip manufacturers give warranty on the engine for about 3 years or 100.000 km (yes, the metric system rules). You even won't loose factory warranty, because it's the law that the manufacturer has to prove that it is the chip that caused the part (whatever part may break down) to fail.
Jun 27, 2000 (4:31 pm)
Hold up there a second kubbo. You're pretty much wrong on the warranty part. It's not going to be difficult to prove almost any type of engine component failure was caused by the turbo. Blown headgasket? Caused by increased boost. Bad valves? Same thing. Cracked block? Burning oil? Darn near anything internally on the engine could be blamed on the increased boost. Blown tranny? Caused by the increased power.
Reliability shouldn't be a problem, as Audi does something very similar in the 180 HP and 225 Hp versions of the TT, but your warranty is going out the window, unless the service manager is your brother or something.
Also, I'm pretty sure your boost specs are a little off. I don't think the KO3 turbo can handle 14-15 lbs of boost, and I know it's not efficient at that level. The chip bumps boost up to around .75-.8 BAR around 11-12 psi. If you want to replace the KO3 with a KO4 you can run 1 bar or a little over, 14-15 psi. Last time I checked the cost of a KO4 kit was around 1900 bucks.
I also don't know of any chip manufacturer that would warranty the engine like that when the chip is increasing boost. On a non turbo maybe, because the chances that the chip would cause major problems are pretty much 0.
#25 of 32 turbo boost continued
Jun 28, 2000 (1:25 am)
Thanks for your response but if you visit www.chip-tuning.com you will find that they boost pressure on a Passat B5 1.8T and golf IV 1.8T from 0.48bar to 1 bar. And that's only for the 190HP chip. They also sell the 235HP package, unfortunately they don't spec the boost pressure with that one. It is also this site where they're talking about the 100.000km warranty without specifying the model or chip. The only thing I forgot is that in most cases you have to buy this warranty (when your car has more than 5.000 km, cars with less than 5.000 km have full factory warranty).
And yes, your right about the fact that almost everything that breaks down can be blamed to the boost, but blaming is not the same as proving. The manufacturer has to PROVE it was the chip. I really don't know how a manufacturer can prove this, but than again I'm not an expert (and also not a lawyer).
Jun 28, 2000 (12:56 pm)
Kubbo, they won't have a problem, they deal with it all the time. You think that Ford is going to cover the warranty on a new Mustang if you install an 8psi supercharger on it? It's the same thing. You say you don't have any experience with it, then you shouldnt be telling people that it's true, I do have experience with, having worked at car dealerships in the past. Your warranty won't be honored if you monkey around with the boost, trust me. According to the people that make the KO3 any boost above 12 psi isn't going to be effective due to it not being 'on the map' as far as efficiency goes. You can keep increasing boost but the returns aren't going to be as great. I'll check this again when I get home.
Jun 28, 2000 (1:19 pm)
On that site they dont have the Golf IV listed in the English portion of the site, they do list the Beetle 1.8T as .8 BAR.
#28 of 32 Share what you know and learn what you don't
Jun 29, 2000 (2:43 am)
Finally we're getting somewhere. I'm learning every day. You're right about their English portion of the site, although they do list the Passat 1.8T with 1 bar, but maybe that engine has a bigger turbo that the Beetle, I don't know. On their German portion (which is mostly in English) they list the Golf IV 1.8T with 190 HP. They don't specify the pressure, but I assume it is the same as the Passat because it has the same (end) power. And yes, you're right about me having no experience, but it has never been my intention to tell the truth (or lies), I just tell what I read and hear and try to share it with other people and try to get responses so I can start building my experience. The reason for this is that I want to built a turbo or supercharger on my car. But before I do that I first need to know what it's all about, and that's what I'm doing right now. So, if I insulted you with my previous posting, I apologize for that.
Ok, now we cleared that one, back to the warranty. With warranty it is always the same with whatever company you deal with. It's always somebody else to blame and to claim. But why do they write on their (German) site that you can buy warranty for 1 year or 100.000 km, and why do they write that in case of a factory warranty you should turn to them? What to do, believe them or not? And yes, before you buy a product they always tell you that they have great warranty, but as soon as you start having problems they don't answer your calls and all that kind of crap. But I think, and that's my personal opinion, that somebody who sells a product with warranty has confidence in his/her product.
Ok, that's it for now, have to go,
Jun 29, 2000 (12:57 pm)
Maybe Germany has different laws than the US, but I can guarantee that in the US if you cram 15 PSI into your GTI and you blow a headgasket the company is going to have absolutely NO problem proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the problem was caused by the turbo. As before, ditto almost every other problem. You could put an aftermarket exhaust on your car that gives you ten more HP and then blow your tranny and all the company has to say is 'Hey, the engine was making more HP than it was supposed to, that's why the tranny blew.' Occasionally you'll find service managers that are willing to overlook slight modifications when it comes to warrantys, but something as major as doubling the boost is going to void your warranty, in the US at least, every time.
#30 of 32 Warranty-
Jun 30, 2000 (7:02 pm)
I know that this is a little off but, I added a after market cool air intake onto my TDI that made it's tone quite noticeable. When I took it in for it's 15k mile service, the service manager asked me what all I had done to my car. I popped the hood and showed him and had no warranty problems what so ever. I told him of my future plans which includes full exhaust by Techtonic, a chip by New Dimensions, and a intercooler by APR. According to him (the service manager) the only thing that would void my contract was of course the chip. I checked with New Dimensions and they confirmed that their own chip would void my warranty. Also according to the service manager adding the intercooler, intake, and exhaust will increase the life of the turbo. Funny because just the other day I read that same quote in this months issue of European car....
#31 of 32 4 to 6
Aug 14, 2000 (5:29 pm)
have a 96 GTI 2.0, and looking to purchase a 95 VR6. the 2.0 has been very good, but need to know if there are anything I need to be aware about this model?
also do these engine have timing belt or chain?
#32 of 32 Warranty and HP gains
Dec 14, 2000 (1:52 am)
In the US, u should have very little trouble getting warranty service.
I say this for several reasons:
1 - '00 GTI warrantied with blown gasket, it was my best friends car. He blew it from too much boost (we think). The dealer did not (could not?) notice the remapped software.
2 - My solution to insure that I have coverage was buying an extra ECU with the chip. It cost me an extra $400 but I keep the original in my trunk and can switch them in about 15-20 minutes. The extra $400 is a very small price to pay next to voiding the warranty.
3 - I did a massive ammount of research before getting a chip. It is very difficult for a dealer to prove that a chip (or MOD in general) cause the problem. Dealers most often can not prove it. They do resort to stone wall tactics and I have talked to several people who have had to involve lawyers to take care of it. This why I did what I did (see # 2).
Also I would like to note that these problems are few and far between. Chipping WILL increase the chance of problems but it is still most likely you will go 100,000 miles w/o a chip induced problem.
On HP gains....
The APR chip takes the 1.8T to 196HP and 240lb-ft. This thing will scoot compared to the 174HP, 180lb-ft VR6. As a side note, you WILL need stickier tires to keep the beast in check.
The VR6 has the most potential (500+ on an EIP golf ~$6000 best I can figure on EIP's site) but you have to pay for every little bit of it. The 1.8T is the way to go if you have a budget(~$1000 with ECU) but from there the price goes up and you will not be able to achieve as much as with a VR6.
I love the dumbfounded look on the 20 year old in the mustang GT