Last post on Nov 27, 2013 at 12:52 PM
You are in the Chevrolet Metro/Geo Metro
What is this discussion about?
Geo Metro, Chevrolet Metro, Hatchback
#1638 of 1867 Re: Idle Surges Under Electrical Load [shaggyman1]
Jul 23, 2009 (4:48 pm)
Incidentally, I'm not familiar with the G10 model number you often mention. My engine is referred to as a VIN code 6; and that designation is used on all the 3 cylinder Metros (both Geo and Chevy). The TPS on my 1990 5 speed is marked 179950-6281. It also is marked 1.5--6.0 degrees. And I expect it will work with your ISC motor.
They also used a different MAP sensor in the 1989-91 3 cyl models; which I find runs a bit richer (which I think would be a benefit in your situation). It has a thick plastic section where the mounting bolt goes through; while the later unit uses a metal plate in that location. It will mate with your harness plug. If someone installed the wrong MAP sensor, or if your engine's compression has now changed enough to have leaned out the mixture; the earlier MAP sensor would be worth trying. Mine is labeled 18590--60B00, and underneath that is another line reading 079800--1540.
#1639 of 1867 Re: Idle Surges Under Electrical Load [zaken1]
Jul 23, 2009 (6:52 pm)
G10 refers to the ID number on engines of Suzuki manufacture, "G" being the engine type and "10" being the displacement, ie: G10 is the three cylinder 1.0L and G13 is the four 1.3L. 3rd digit is the model year, starting with "F" in 1985 and going to "Y" in 2000. The G series engines share many components, such as pistons, rings, bearings, etc.
VIN code 6 refers to the fuel system (8th digit in your VIN), 6 being Throttle Body Fuel Injection- so a G10 with TFI.
All of my TPS units appear to have only one switch (idle), rather than two, (the other being for WOT) but from what I've gleaned so far there is a third type with a continuous variable resistor as used on the 1.3 with port injection.
I'll check on the MAP- I think mine is plastic, but I'm not sure.
#1640 of 1867 1993 Metro LSI update-3 cylinder convertible
Jul 26, 2009 (12:16 am)
I'm still fooling around with the car. I have checked EVERYTHING I could possibly think of and have hopefully narrowed it down to the COIL. I have been to auto parts stores here in Las Vegas. No one really seems to know what the correct coil should be. I bought one, but it was not the right one. Could you please tell me the correct coil manufacturer and part number. I checked the Rock Auto parts site, but I am still confused.
Thanks very much.
#1641 of 1867 Re: 1993 Metro LSI update-3 cylinder convertible [annielulu]
Jul 26, 2009 (10:21 am)
The coil specification is not nearly as critical or restricted as your message implies. Virtually ANY 12 volt coil that has a 1.0-1.2 ohm primary, and is intended for electronic ignition applications will work on your car. I have used literally dozens of different types of coils on Metros; which work just fine.
In the Rock auto site; both the Airtex # 5C1069 or the AC Delco # E536 would be suitable. Basically, any coil listed for US model 1993 Metro LSI convertibles will work. And these coils will all look like a tin can, with the high voltage terminal and the two primary terminals together on the same end. The only listings which are not suitable are the ones for the Canadian models or the non convertible US models. And that difference will be very obvious; because the unsuitable coils will be more oval than cylindrical, will have an external metal core surrounding the coil, and will have the high voltage terminal on the opposite end of the coil from the primary terminals; with the primary terminals located inside a plug that will not match with your harness wires.
Now, there are other types of tin can style coils which are not suitable for the Metro; but they would not be listed as replacements for that vehicle. I believe that you already replaced the coil with a new one some time ago. If you think the parts clerk sold you a coil that was not intended for the Metro, and you can post all the numbers and markings, and brand information printed on the coil; I'll probably be able to confirm whether or not it is suitable.
I understand that you have checked everything you could possibly think of; but you must bear in mind that you are dealing with electronic parts here, which cannot be checked without meters and test equipment. Because you do not have this equipment, there are many items in the electrical system that you are not able to check. And it is certainly among those items where the problem lies. Electricity may not be visible; but problems with this invisible force still can prevent the car from running, even when the parts physically look just great.
Did the EVERYTHING that you have checked include the distributor pick up coil, and the ignition module, and what about the test I suggested for bypassing the ignition switch??? Pardon my skepticism; but since you are not skilled in this area, I would at least need to know the details of what you did, explained as completely as possible, in order to confirm in my own mind that each of these items is not the source of the problem. My experience has been that people all too frequently test an electronic component by performing some sort of rudimentary electical test that is either inappropriate, inconclusive, or is improperly applied; and then become totally confident that they have eliminated that part as the source of the problem.
And that is why I am requesting full and complete disclosure.
#1642 of 1867 water temp tied to acceleration
Aug 02, 2009 (2:31 pm)
Hello, I have a 93 geo metro; last week, the water temp was reading normal until I gave it some gas. The water temp guage redlined and I took my foot off the gas, water temp drops back to normal. Luckily only a block from home; it does the same thing in reverse. Have repalced the thermostat, check all the fuses, flushed the radiator and have good even flow. I'm thinking now it must be elecrtical, but I'm not sure if I need to relace the coolant temp sensor, or the temp switch or what I should do. Thanks for any help!
#1643 of 1867 Re: water temp tied to acceleration [artcarclaire]
Aug 02, 2009 (5:02 pm)
I'd suspect insufficient water pump delivery to the radiator for whatever reason.
Are you sure you have good flow through the whole system?
How fast does the temp change? If its only a few seconds, I'd suspect a bad electrical ground connection somewhere.
#1644 of 1867 Re: water temp tied to acceleration [artcarclaire]
Aug 02, 2009 (9:06 pm)
Four possibilities come to mind here: 1> The radiator may not have been filled all the way to the top; or it may have initially been filled; but the level dropped when the trapped air in the system came out, and the level was not subsequently rechecked directly at the radiator. So, because the radiator is not full, there is now no siphon action between the radiator and the reservoir; so the radiator cannot refill itself from the reservoir, which makes the motor overheat whenever any additional heat input is added, because there is now an insufficient amount of coolant in the radiator.
2> The cooling system is filled with 100% pure coolant; instead of the 50-50 mixture of coolant and distilled water which it is designed to use. Pure undiluted coolant cannot transfer heat well, and thus must have water mixed with it, in order for it to be able to transfer the amount of heat which the engine generates when it accelerates.
3>The electric radiator fan has stopped working; which leaves the engine on the verge of overheating whenever you accelerate. You should be able to hear and see the fan run whenever the temperature gauge goes above about 3/4 of the way up. If the fan does not run when the engine gets that hot, the cooling fan relay has probably failed. That relay is located on the front edge of the underhood fuse box; near the fender on the drivers side, between the battery and the shock tower.
4> The head gasket has been damaged by the engine previously overheating; and now leaks hot combustion gases into the cooling system whenever the engine accelerates. This can be confirmed or disproved by connecting a cooling system pressure tester to the radiator neck, and watching the pressure gauge when the engine is accelerated. If the pressure in the cooling system increases significantly under acceleration; the head gasket is probably leaking. There is also another test for a blown head gasket; which involves drawing air from inside the radiator up through a vial containing a chemical which changes color in the presence of combustion gases. And an infra red emissions analyzer can also identify a leaking head gasket; by detecting hydrocarbons in the air inside the radiator.
If the head gasket is leaking; the cylinder head will have to be removed, and the head surface checked for warpage and the entire head checked for cracks. The head will often require remachining to make the sealing surface flat again. And if the motor has over 50,000 miles on it; the valves probably should also be reground. If a head gasket is replaced on an engine which has a warped head; the new gasket will leak, and the engine will continue to overheat.
#1645 of 1867 Re: 1993 Metro LSI update-3 cylinder convertible [annielulu]
Aug 03, 2009 (3:05 am)
I'm sorry it sometimes takes so long for me to get new insights; but that's just the way my mind works these days.
There is another test you can do for free, which will determine whether the distributor pick up coil is the source of your problem (and I do believe that is the most likely issue at this time): Try push starting the car in second gear; by either having at least three healthy people push it by hand as fast as they can on a level or downhill slope, and engaging the clutch when the car is going at their maximum speed; or pushing it with another car, with a tire wedged as a cushion between the bumper of the push car and yours. Make sure the key is turned to the position where the dashboard warning lights are lit while you do. If the car starts, and does not subsequently restart with the starter; the distributor pick up coil is definitely bad. If you have not done the ignition switch bypass test through the cigarette lighter plug, as I previously explained; the start contacts in the ignition switch may be an alternate source of the problem. But if you did test the ignition switch by the method I suggested, and the car did not start at that time; then the distributor pick up coil is the only remaining possibility. I hope this helps!!! Joel
#1646 of 1867 Re: water temp tied to acceleration [senormechanico]
Aug 03, 2009 (9:37 am)
I am guessing that there is good flow; what I meant by that was, after a flush, the upper and lower hoses and the radiator were all heating up together, no cold spots in the radiator. The temp gauge will redline within a few seconds of applying gas, but it will drop to normal level just a quick after I let off the gas. Also, this doesn't happen when I rev the engine in neutral, only in gear. In neutral, the temp guage doesn't jump.
Based off the post with suggestions after yours:
It does not seem that the radiator is pulling from the reservior. I ran the car with the radiator cap off to get out the air; it is air free (from what I can tell) and still not pulling from the reservior. The fan is not kicking on, but I'm not getting the gauge over 1/2 just letting it idle, or reving the engine. The radiator fluid is mixed 50/50, I double checked that today.
I'm hoping that helps, looking forward to any other suggestions.
#1647 of 1867 1993 Metro LSI-3 cylinder convertible
Aug 12, 2009 (7:59 pm)
OK, finally found the problem. Underneath the fuel injector there is a little O ring that the injector sits on. Well, that stupid little ring was split from wear, so that the fuel supply was getting messed up.
When the ring was replaced, the fuel got straightened out-we were able to put the fuel fuse in again and it started.
However, I think that raw gas was slowly seeping into the pan after running down the cylinder walls slowly over a period of time. This resulted in a thinning of the oil so consequently I now have a rod bearing knock, but the car starts and runs ok now.
From what I can ascertain, we can install 3 new rod bearings pretty simply by dropping the pan to install them. There doesn't appear to be anything major in the way to access the bearings.
I wish to thank you very much for all of the help you offered. You put a lot of time into your suggestions, and I truly appreciate your help.