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#1617 of 1692 Metro LSI by annielulu Jun 27, 2009 (2:13 pm)
Thanks.   I'll follow your advice.
#1618 of 1692 Metro LSI by annielulu Jun 30, 2009 (9:49 pm)
Zaken1:   Do you know if there is an online source where I could obtain a wiring diagram for the ignition switch for 1993 Geo Metro 3 cylinder-1 liter? Replies to this message: zaken1 (Jun 30, 2009 10:52 pm)
#1619 of 1692 Re: Metro LSI [annielulu] by zaken1 Jun 30, 2009 (10:52 pm)
Replying to: annielulu (Jun 30, 2009 9:49 pm) Annielulu;   Here are the two major online sources. I tend to prefer the first one; but obviously some people don't.   http://www.eautorepair.net/Marketing/Default.asp   http://www.alldata.com/downloads/pdfs/prod_sheets/ad_repair_overview.pdf   I also want to add that it should not be necessary to have a wiring diagram unless you want to see if some parts are not connected properly. If you just intend to replace parts; they are simply plugged in to the harness, and the plugs only connect one way, so it is pretty foolproof.   In addition, you could test parts and thus determine whether or not they really need to be replaced; if you only had a digital volt/ohmmeter ($20-$30 at Radio Shack). And that meter would quickly pay for itself in savings on parts you'd find did not need to be replaced. Without a meter; you'll pretty much be guessing about what to do. And this is where the manuals can be very helpful; because they have detailed, step by step test procedures for ALL the major parts (and nearly all of these tests require a digital voltmeter).   I also want to mention that you can find full wiring diagrams for your car in many public libraries, where they can be photocopied for ten cents a page. The Geo factory service manual or the Mitchell Electrical systems manual are the two best sources; but even a Haynes service manual for the Metro (the entire manual which costs around $20 or so) can be bought new at many auto parts stores, and has some good diagrams (and photos) of the parts and systems you're dealing with. And many county libraries can order manuals from their central headquarters, if they don't have the one you need on hand.
#1620 of 1692 1993 Metro LSI update-3 cylinder convertible by annielulu Jun 30, 2009 (11:04 pm)
Thank you Zaken1. Replies to this message: zaken1 (Jul 02, 2009 2:46 am)
#1621 of 1692 Re: 1993 Metro LSI update-3 cylinder convertible [annielulu] by zaken1 Jul 02, 2009 (2:46 am)
Replying to: annielulu (Jun 30, 2009 11:04 pm) I am finding it difficult to keep my responses focussed on your particular situation. I think this is because of two things; one being the length of time between posts, and the other being the lack of available diagnostic information (mostly voltage readings), which I usually rely on to draw my conclusions.   But nevertheless, every once in a while, an idea comes to mind. I just received one of those ideas: There are really just three electrical parts on your model car which are likely to cause a weak spark: They are the coil, the ignition switch, and the distributor pick up unit.   Although the coil has already been replaced; if the two smaller wires were incorrectly connected to the opposite terminals; the car could then become very hard to start. I'm not 100% sure of the color code; but I believe the red wire should go to the coil terminal marked "+" or "batt", with the brown wire going to the "-" or "dist" terminal. If the wires are not now connected to those terminals, it would be well worth exchanging their positions. But even if the wires are already connected to those termiinals; it still might be worth exchanging their positions. That would be a long shot; but there is no downside; it either will work, or not work.   If this doesn't fix the starting problem, then in view of the previous problems you have had with the car continuing to run when the key was shut off; it seems almost certain that the contacts in the ignition switch, which have been sticking together and not separating when the key was turned off while the battery was low, have developed extremely high resistance (which would make the spark much weaker than normal). So I believe the likelihood of the ignition switch causing the starting problem is much greater than the likelihood of it being caused by the distributor pick up unit. I should have realized this at the time I recommended replacing the distributor pick up; but at the time, I lost sight of the problems you had been having with the ignition switch.   Metros have a unique current sensing circuit in the computer connected across the ignition supply wiring; which will shut down the spark if someone tries to jumper across the ignition switch. Because of this anti theft feature; it is not possible to make the motor run by bypassing the ignition switch. So if you were thinking of using the information from a wiring diagram to figure out how to bypass the ignition switch; forget it: IT WILL NOT WORK. I have found this out from personal experience with my own car.   Again, I apologize for not mentioning this sooner. But it sometimes takes me time to zero in on what is going on.   The bottom line is that I believe you are going to have to bite the bullet and replace the $200 ignition switch. On any other vehicle; I would rebel against this outrage, and just install a generic switch or relay to replace the ignition switch. But the design of the Metro ignition system and its undefeatable computerized anti theft feature makes this option unusable here.
#1622 of 1692 Metro LSI by annielulu Jul 02, 2009 (1:04 pm)
Thanks:   Do I have to get that part from Rock Auto, or can I get it here locally from Autozone, Checker Auto, etc. Replies to this message: zaken1 (Jul 02, 2009 1:31 pm) zaken1 (Jul 02, 2009 1:54 pm) zaken1 (Jul 07, 2009 5:59 am)
#1623 of 1692 Re: Metro LSI [annielulu] by zaken1 Jul 02, 2009 (1:31 pm)
Replying to: annielulu (Jul 02, 2009 1:04 pm) You can get it from anyone who has it; but the best quality in a local source would probably be a NAPA store. On the other hand, it my well turn out that all those switches are made by the same Japanese manufacturer; and the price difference between brands is all mark up. But my sense is that there probably will be two levels of quality available. Airtex and Standard are both top quality. Beck Arnley would also be a top quality choice. If you see a switch that is made in Taiwan or Korea, I would avoid it. Also bear in mind that the switches for manual transmission cars are different from the switches for automatic transmission cars; and Canadian and American cars take different switches.   Also, if you don't want to, you don't have to go to the trouble of taking the steering column apart to install the new switch. Instead, you can simply plug the new switch into the harness plugs, and tie it up somewhere under the dashboard. In that instance; you would still use the current key to lock and unlock the steering wheel; but there would be a new key for the ignition switch.
#1624 of 1692 Re: Metro LSI [annielulu] by zaken1 Jul 02, 2009 (1:54 pm)
Replying to: annielulu (Jul 02, 2009 1:04 pm) Sometimes parts which only fit one brand and model of car are less expensive when bought from that brand's dealership (because the dealer has a direct relationship with the manufacturer; while parts sold in retail stores have to go through several levels of warehousing and distribution; with a price mark up at each of those levels).   So, if you can find a Chevy dealer who has not gone out of business, and who can confirm that the correct part is either in stock or is currently available through their warehouse; you might (but not always) be able to get it for a better price.
#1625 of 1692 Re: Metro LSI [annielulu] by zaken1 Jul 07, 2009 (5:59 am)
Replying to: annielulu (Jul 02, 2009 1:04 pm) Hi again;   I just had another inspiration about a way around your problem: Although it is not possible to bypass the ignition switch with a jumper, it may be possible to power the coil and the ignition system from one of the other circuits in your existing switch. The ignition switch usually has multiple independent sets of contacts in it; some are just used for accessories, and would still be in relatively good condition. They would be easily capable of supplying the required amount of power. My thought is to find an accessory circuit underneath the hood that can be tapped into; and test it on my car to see if it can substitute for the normal ignition circuit. I used to do this kind of asset reallocation all the time on old Chevys; when an ignition switch went out.   I don't know for sure whether this will work on a Metro; but I'm willing to check it out and give you the details, if it turns out to be viable. But I first need to know whether the information would still be useful to you. So please let me know. Thanks!
#1626 of 1692 1993 Metro LSI update-3 cylinder convertible by annielulu Jul 07, 2009 (9:15 am)
Zaken1   Thank you. Yes, this info on the ignition switch would be appreciated. Replies to this message: zaken1 (Jul 07, 2009 3:56 pm)

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