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Hatchbacks Chevrolet Metro/Geo Metro Chevrolet/Geo Metro
1692 messages, Last post on Oct 24, 2009 at 5:27 PM
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Zaken1: OK, I sprayed starter fluid as you suggested but the car still will not start. I have replaced: plugs, plug wires, coil, rotor, cap and timing belt. Took off the valve cover to make sure the timing was correct. The engine is perfectly timed. Seems that fuel is not the answer. Thinking it is spark related. I am thinking that the ignition control module may be the problem. It's supposed to be on the firewall-driver's side, near the shock tower. I looked all over there. The only things I can see are the silver finned resistor, something for the fan motor, the coil itself but no ignition module. I looked on the Rock Auto site and got a picture of the module. I can't find it anywhere on the firewall. Do you know where else it may be?
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Replying to: annielulu (Jun 27, 2009 10:58 am) The ignition module on your car is integrated with the distributor pick up coil; in a single unit which is variously called "Distributor Pole Piece Assembly" or "Distributor Ignition Pickup." Rock Auto apparently doesn't realize that those two items are really the same part, so they listed them under two separate headings. They do a lot of that. I'm willing to bet you that the module section of that unit is good; but the pick up coil is defective. I've never yet seen a defective Metro module; but I've repeatedly found bad pickup coils. Not that this distinction matters; since both items are replaced as a single unit. But in the later Chevy Metro models with 1.3 liter, 4 cylinder motors; they are located in separate housings. The ignition pickup on your car is located inside the distributor cap. It is mounted with two screws, and has a permanently attached lead wire which passes through the distributor body in a grommet which can be lifted out of its slot when the whole unit is removed. Since this unit is usually extremely reliable, and a new one costs about $80; I would consider it quite appropriate to get a used one from a wrecking yard. The unit in your car was used on all 1993-1997 Geo Metros with either 3 or 4 cylinder engines. It was also used on all Chevy Metros with 3 cylinder engines; from 1998-2000. But it was not used on any 4 cylinder Chevy Metros; and was not used on 3 cylinder Geo Metros before 1993. If you find a local wrecking yard like Pick-N-Pull, or any yard that allows small parts to be removed from distributors; you should be able to remove this part yourself, and expect to pay a tiny fraction of its new cost. Some yards that do not allow removal of small parts will still sell you a complete distributor for about half of the cost of a new ignition pickup. Just be sure the pickup has lead wires that are uninterrupted, with no other terminals on them; all the way out to the white plug on the outside of the distributor. The air gap between the pickup coil and the toothed trigger wheel must be adjusted when the pickup is installed. I would suggest turning the engine until the tip of one of the 3 projections on the trigger wheel (on the shaft below the rotor) is opposite the metal rib in the center of the black plastic part of the pick up unit, and measuring the gap between the tip of the projection and the pick up. It should be something like .012". If the gap is messed up; just set the new gap to.012". A clean business card can be used for this purpose, if you don't have a feeler gauge. If the engine then runs (don't forget to reinstall the fuel pump fuse); it would also be a good idea to recheck the timing with a timing light. |
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Thanks. I'll follow your advice. |
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Zaken1: Do you know if there is an online source where I could obtain a wiring diagram for the ignition switch for 1993 Geo Metro 3 cylinder-1 liter?
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Replying to: annielulu (Jun 30, 2009 9:49 pm) Here are the two major online sources. I tend to prefer the first one; but obviously some people don't. http://www.eautorepair.net/Marketing/Default.asp http://www.alldata.com/downloads/pdfs/prod_sheets/ad_repair_overview.pdf I also want to add that it should not be necessary to have a wiring diagram unless you want to see if some parts are not connected properly. If you just intend to replace parts; they are simply plugged in to the harness, and the plugs only connect one way, so it is pretty foolproof. In addition, you could test parts and thus determine whether or not they really need to be replaced; if you only had a digital volt/ohmmeter ($20-$30 at Radio Shack). And that meter would quickly pay for itself in savings on parts you'd find did not need to be replaced. Without a meter; you'll pretty much be guessing about what to do. And this is where the manuals can be very helpful; because they have detailed, step by step test procedures for ALL the major parts (and nearly all of these tests require a digital voltmeter). I also want to mention that you can find full wiring diagrams for your car in many public libraries, where they can be photocopied for ten cents a page. The Geo factory service manual or the Mitchell Electrical systems manual are the two best sources; but even a Haynes service manual for the Metro (the entire manual which costs around $20 or so) can be bought new at many auto parts stores, and has some good diagrams (and photos) of the parts and systems you're dealing with. And many county libraries can order manuals from their central headquarters, if they don't have the one you need on hand. |
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Thank you Zaken1.
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Replying to: annielulu (Jun 30, 2009 11:04 pm) But nevertheless, every once in a while, an idea comes to mind. I just received one of those ideas: There are really just three electrical parts on your model car which are likely to cause a weak spark: They are the coil, the ignition switch, and the distributor pick up unit. Although the coil has already been replaced; if the two smaller wires were incorrectly connected to the opposite terminals; the car could then become very hard to start. I'm not 100% sure of the color code; but I believe the red wire should go to the coil terminal marked "+" or "batt", with the brown wire going to the "-" or "dist" terminal. If the wires are not now connected to those terminals, it would be well worth exchanging their positions. But even if the wires are already connected to those termiinals; it still might be worth exchanging their positions. That would be a long shot; but there is no downside; it either will work, or not work. If this doesn't fix the starting problem, then in view of the previous problems you have had with the car continuing to run when the key was shut off; it seems almost certain that the contacts in the ignition switch, which have been sticking together and not separating when the key was turned off while the battery was low, have developed extremely high resistance (which would make the spark much weaker than normal). So I believe the likelihood of the ignition switch causing the starting problem is much greater than the likelihood of it being caused by the distributor pick up unit. I should have realized this at the time I recommended replacing the distributor pick up; but at the time, I lost sight of the problems you had been having with the ignition switch. Metros have a unique current sensing circuit in the computer connected across the ignition supply wiring; which will shut down the spark if someone tries to jumper across the ignition switch. Because of this anti theft feature; it is not possible to make the motor run by bypassing the ignition switch. So if you were thinking of using the information from a wiring diagram to figure out how to bypass the ignition switch; forget it: IT WILL NOT WORK. I have found this out from personal experience with my own car. Again, I apologize for not mentioning this sooner. But it sometimes takes me time to zero in on what is going on. The bottom line is that I believe you are going to have to bite the bullet and replace the $200 ignition switch. On any other vehicle; I would rebel against this outrage, and just install a generic switch or relay to replace the ignition switch. But the design of the Metro ignition system and its undefeatable computerized anti theft feature makes this option unusable here. |
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Thanks: Do I have to get that part from Rock Auto, or can I get it here locally from Autozone, Checker Auto, etc.
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Replying to: annielulu (Jul 02, 2009 1:04 pm) Also, if you don't want to, you don't have to go to the trouble of taking the steering column apart to install the new switch. Instead, you can simply plug the new switch into the harness plugs, and tie it up somewhere under the dashboard. In that instance; you would still use the current key to lock and unlock the steering wheel; but there would be a new key for the ignition switch. |
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