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Hatchbacks Chevrolet Metro/Geo Metro Chevrolet/Geo Metro
1692 messages, Last post on Oct 24, 2009 at 5:27 PM
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Replying to: zaken1 (Jun 19, 2009 2:44 pm) |
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Zaken1: Been working on the car. Replaced new plugs as you recommended and gapped them as you said. Replaced distributor cap & rotor, replaced plug and coil wires, replaced coil. It has a new timing belt. Took off the timing cover and checked timing marks-all line up good. Have a new battery. Getting good fuel flow-not the fuel pump or a clogged filter. The spark being generated is not blue/white- it's yellowish, but it's getting to the plugs. Checked the fuel injector for gas. It is working, but If I am correct-the injector is supposed to generate a "conical mist" of fuel flow into the throttle body. Mine squirts out fuel-it's not a mist, and I pulled one of the plugs and cranked the engine...well, fuel just squirted right out of the cylinder-pushed out by the compression. I've never seen this before. Well, could it be spark or fuel. Based upon this new info....what do you think. Thank you very much for any help you can provide.
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Replying to: annielulu (Jun 20, 2009 2:56 pm) I may have said this before; but I need to mention it again: If you ever remove the lower half of the air filter assembly, do not try to start the motor unless the wiring harness plug is attached to the inlet air temperature sensor in the air filter housing. If you try to run the motor with that electrical plug disconnected; the fuel injector will put way too much fuel into the motor, and it will immediately flood. It sounds like you're on the right track, but from the information you provided, I still can't tell if it is spark or fuel. However, you might be able to further zero in on the situation with the following test: Buy an aerosol can of starting fluid. Remove the fuse for the fuel pump. Disconnect the coil wire from the distributor cap, and clip the end of the wire onto a grounded object. Remove the spark plugs and crank the engine for 15 seconds with the accelerator pedal held all the way down. Then let the engine sit with the plugs out for an hour or more. This should clear out all remaining traces of flooding. Reconnect the coil wire to the distributor cap. Make sure the plugs are clean and dry. If they are not clean and dry; burn off any moisture or deposits with the flame from a propane torch (which you may have to buy if you don't already have one). Reinstall the plugs in the engine and reconnect the plug wires. Do not put the fuel pump fuse back in. With the air filter lid off, spray starting fluid into the air horn of the throttle body for one full second; and then immediately get in the car and try to start the motor. It obviously won't run this way; but what I want to find out is if it fires at all. If it fires, the problem is most likely a bad fuel injector. If it doesn't fire at all, the problem is most likely in the ignition. |
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| Thank you Zaken1 | |
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Zaken1: OK, I sprayed starter fluid as you suggested but the car still will not start. I have replaced: plugs, plug wires, coil, rotor, cap and timing belt. Took off the valve cover to make sure the timing was correct. The engine is perfectly timed. Seems that fuel is not the answer. Thinking it is spark related. I am thinking that the ignition control module may be the problem. It's supposed to be on the firewall-driver's side, near the shock tower. I looked all over there. The only things I can see are the silver finned resistor, something for the fan motor, the coil itself but no ignition module. I looked on the Rock Auto site and got a picture of the module. I can't find it anywhere on the firewall. Do you know where else it may be?
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Replying to: annielulu (Jun 27, 2009 10:58 am) The ignition module on your car is integrated with the distributor pick up coil; in a single unit which is variously called "Distributor Pole Piece Assembly" or "Distributor Ignition Pickup." Rock Auto apparently doesn't realize that those two items are really the same part, so they listed them under two separate headings. They do a lot of that. I'm willing to bet you that the module section of that unit is good; but the pick up coil is defective. I've never yet seen a defective Metro module; but I've repeatedly found bad pickup coils. Not that this distinction matters; since both items are replaced as a single unit. But in the later Chevy Metro models with 1.3 liter, 4 cylinder motors; they are located in separate housings. The ignition pickup on your car is located inside the distributor cap. It is mounted with two screws, and has a permanently attached lead wire which passes through the distributor body in a grommet which can be lifted out of its slot when the whole unit is removed. Since this unit is usually extremely reliable, and a new one costs about $80; I would consider it quite appropriate to get a used one from a wrecking yard. The unit in your car was used on all 1993-1997 Geo Metros with either 3 or 4 cylinder engines. It was also used on all Chevy Metros with 3 cylinder engines; from 1998-2000. But it was not used on any 4 cylinder Chevy Metros; and was not used on 3 cylinder Geo Metros before 1993. If you find a local wrecking yard like Pick-N-Pull, or any yard that allows small parts to be removed from distributors; you should be able to remove this part yourself, and expect to pay a tiny fraction of its new cost. Some yards that do not allow removal of small parts will still sell you a complete distributor for about half of the cost of a new ignition pickup. Just be sure the pickup has lead wires that are uninterrupted, with no other terminals on them; all the way out to the white plug on the outside of the distributor. The air gap between the pickup coil and the toothed trigger wheel must be adjusted when the pickup is installed. I would suggest turning the engine until the tip of one of the 3 projections on the trigger wheel (on the shaft below the rotor) is opposite the metal rib in the center of the black plastic part of the pick up unit, and measuring the gap between the tip of the projection and the pick up. It should be something like .012". If the gap is messed up; just set the new gap to.012". A clean business card can be used for this purpose, if you don't have a feeler gauge. If the engine then runs (don't forget to reinstall the fuel pump fuse); it would also be a good idea to recheck the timing with a timing light. |
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Thanks. I'll follow your advice. |
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Zaken1: Do you know if there is an online source where I could obtain a wiring diagram for the ignition switch for 1993 Geo Metro 3 cylinder-1 liter?
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Replying to: annielulu (Jun 30, 2009 9:49 pm) Here are the two major online sources. I tend to prefer the first one; but obviously some people don't. http://www.eautorepair.net/Marketing/Default.asp http://www.alldata.com/downloads/pdfs/prod_sheets/ad_repair_overview.pdf I also want to add that it should not be necessary to have a wiring diagram unless you want to see if some parts are not connected properly. If you just intend to replace parts; they are simply plugged in to the harness, and the plugs only connect one way, so it is pretty foolproof. In addition, you could test parts and thus determine whether or not they really need to be replaced; if you only had a digital volt/ohmmeter ($20-$30 at Radio Shack). And that meter would quickly pay for itself in savings on parts you'd find did not need to be replaced. Without a meter; you'll pretty much be guessing about what to do. And this is where the manuals can be very helpful; because they have detailed, step by step test procedures for ALL the major parts (and nearly all of these tests require a digital voltmeter). I also want to mention that you can find full wiring diagrams for your car in many public libraries, where they can be photocopied for ten cents a page. The Geo factory service manual or the Mitchell Electrical systems manual are the two best sources; but even a Haynes service manual for the Metro (the entire manual which costs around $20 or so) can be bought new at many auto parts stores, and has some good diagrams (and photos) of the parts and systems you're dealing with. And many county libraries can order manuals from their central headquarters, if they don't have the one you need on hand. |
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Thank you Zaken1.
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