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Hatchbacks Chevrolet Metro/Geo Metro Chevrolet/Geo Metro
1341 messages, Last post on Jul 08, 2008 at 5:32 PM
You are in the Chevrolet Metro/Geo Metro Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: zaken1 (Jul 05, 2008 6:19 pm)  . That was one of the first things I did. I learned a long time ago to check the little things that would be obvious like that. It helps.  A buddy of mine has a voltmeter that I could borrow this week. I'll check every fuse in the engine compartment. As for the battery cables, I am very picky and neat when it comes to that sort of thing. I rewired my 69' Olds 442 from bumper to bumper and made sure everything was neat and professional. Soldered and heat shrunk every connection.  This Metro is new to me because it has more electronics to it. So I'm more confused as to what the problem is. I know it has to be something simple. I'm staying positive. Thanks again guys and I'll try the advice you gave. May have more questions though. LOL! Dan
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Replying to: greenpickel (Jul 06, 2008 6:51 am) " MFD. By CAMI-AUTOMOTIVE INC. Canada Date 11/93 This vehicle conforms to all applicable US Federal Motor Vehicle safety, bumper, and theft prevention standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above. VIN # 2C1MR2462R6728129" So, I beieve this car was built in Canada but was intended to be operated in the US. Am I right? I also found the ECM (Engine Control Module) on their website and thought I'd see what mine has. They look the same but, I will call them tomorrow because the numbers on mine don't quite match the ones they list. I just want to make sure they are the same in case I need a new computer. Is there any way to test it? Can a parts store or a dealership do that? They cost just over $300 so I want to make sure mine is defective before I buy one. Dan
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Replying to: greenpickel (Jul 06, 2008 8:30 am) You are correct in concluding that you have a U.S. model. But the news that it is an XFI is a surprise. I don't doubt that, but it complicates the situation. XFIs were relatively rare. They were designed to give the highest possible fuel economy. To achieve that, the engine was designed with one less piston ring than the standard engine (for lower friction) and the camshaft had a shorter duration and lower lift. This moved the power curve down to a lower RPM, but it also made less peak power than the standard engine. Those differences were small enough that it wouldn't be a bother to most drivers; but they did require the computer to be calibrated differently. The throttle body also had slightly different (leaner) calibrations, and the spark advance curve was different. So, once you get it running; a standard engine with XFI tuning will not run quite like it was intended to. I have an XFI throttle body on my standard Metro, and it has taken a bit of work to get the mixture where it belongs, and to keep the check engine light from protesting. But I now prefer the way it runs. If you get it running, and there is a problem with the computer, the check engine light will come on and stay on. That light is supposed to briefly light when you first turn the key, but it should go out when the engine starts. If there is a computer problem, the computer will generate a trouble code, which will cause the check engine light to flash a coded sequence when the key is turned on (before cranking the starter). The sequence can be read and then the explanation can be looked up in a chart. This information is in the service manual. If the engine runs, and the check engine light stays off, then the computer is OK (assuming the check engine light comes on momentarily when the key is first turned on). Parts stores are not equipped to test computers. Dealerships can, but they charge a lot to do so, and sometimes the results are misleading. I've seen trouble codes which said one thing, when the problem was something else. Not for the faint hearted, or those who are short of money. In that kind of work, it would be preferable to work with a dealership who was liberal and customer friendly about adjusting their charges to keep things fair; rather than one which charged for everything they did, whether it worked or not. But don't forget the ignition pick up unit. If it is bad, you definitely will not get a spark. Also, it is not a good idea to use an ohmmeter to test fuses. I've seen too many misleading results. A self powered continuity test light is a much more appropriate tool for that purpose. Connecting a 12 volt light bulb in series with the fuse and the vehicle battery will also work comparably; providing the bulb does not draw more current than the rating of the fuse (a bulb with a rating of between 5watts and 25 watts is preferable). And that same light bulb is the absolute best tool for checking the fuse box to see if each of the fuse sockets can supply enough current to light the bulb; when the other end of the bulb filament is grounded. Joel
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Replying to: zaken1 (Jul 06, 2008 11:49 am)  I'll try some of the things you mentioned and if that doesn't work then I'll go ahead and buy a new dist. pickup. Thanks again! Dan |
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Replying to: greenpickel (Jul 06, 2008 1:08 pm) All Geo Metro engines had throttle body fuel injection. Metros were never made with carburetors. The 3 cylinder Chevy Sprint, which was the preceding model to the Geo Metro, and was also designed and produced by Suzuki (although GM sold them in the U.S. under the Chevy and Geo name) had a carburetor, except fuel injection was used on the turbo model, and on the standard engine in 1988, the last year of its model run. Anyway, my point is that the throttle body looks sort of like a carburetor, which leads many people to mistake it for one. So I believe the engine you bought may have been mislabeled as "carbureted." I don't believe they made XFIs with automatics, although I'm not absolutely sure. The automatic transmission equipped standard Metros got about TEN miles per gallon less than the manuals. That was the worst possible combination on that car. XFIs usually had all black rear bumpers, while standards and LSIs had a strip on the top edge of the bumper which was white. XFIs also had a decal reading "XFI" above the right tail light. But now I need to know: Does your car have an automatic transmission??? Joel |
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Replying to: greenpickel (Jul 06, 2008 1:08 pm) I wanted to mention that there is another option to sort out this problem. There is a brand of repair manual called Mitchell, which is used by shops which specialize in fuel injection and electrical work. They publish a huge, thick, book each model year, which covers each individual brand of car in complete detail. This is the Mother Lode of diagnostic information. For example, I was working on a 1993 Acura Integra the other day, which also had a 'no spark' condition that could not be fixed by replacing the usual components. So I drove to the Mountain View, CA public library, which has in their reference section a full set of Mitchell manuals for every recent model year. I looked through the 1993 Acura Integra information, and ended up photocopying 75 pages of wiring diagrams, logic trees, computer trouble codes, and self diagnostic procedures. Included in that information was the Acura part number of a factory diagnostic tool called a 'break-out box.' This part is normally found only at dealerships, but can be ordered through the dealership parts department, by using the part number listed in the Mitchell manual. It is a special electrical adapter, which plugs in to the computer, and to the wiring harness plug which normally goes into the computer. It has several rows of numbered terminals, perhaps 60 pins in all, to which you can connect a digital voltmeter and read the voltage on each individual wire in the vehicle harness. This custom made tool makes it possible to troubleshoot the entire wiring harness, without cutting into it. AND IT COST ONLY ABOUT $8 FROM THE DEALERSHIP. This is what it takes to sort out a 'no spark' problem when the fault is not in the usual components. So if you have access to a digital voltmeter, and are willing to put the time into it, this is the way to save the massive labor charges which you'd have to pay at a dealership or specialist shop, to fix this problem. Of course, you might be able to fix it by replacing every major part in the ignition system, but since there has been lots of corrosion in the wiring harness, I think there is a substantial chance that the problem is NOT a defective component, but is instead a fault in the wiring. But, without being to 'see' the overall condition of the electrical system; you would just be playing Russian Roulette. Very few libraries have a full set of Mitchell Manuals, but some can order them, or can tell you where they can be found. It might also be possible that a friendly local electrical and fuel injection shop will let you copy pages from a Mitchell Manual that they have. Or you might be able to buy one online. I don't know whether there is a break-out box available for Geo Metros, but I do know that the information you need to fix this problem is in that manual. And if you do take it on; the experience and confidence you thereby gain will benefit you for the rest of your life. Joel
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My inner wheel arches are completely rusted and need replaced. Where can i get reasonably priced sheet metal parts? I'm OEM is out of this world.
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Replying to: tr3250 (Jul 07, 2008 5:59 am) |
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Replying to: zaken1 (Jul 07, 2008 1:54 am) Yes, that is another option that I may have to pursue. To answer your question, yes, I do have an automatic trans. It also has all black bumpers but, no XFI badges to speak of. The car was wrecked then repainted so, that may be why. The only reason I think I have an XFI is because on Rock Auto's website they have a picture of an XFI ignition control module or "ignitor" and it looks just like mine with the #'s J121 on it. The standard module doesn't look like mine. I think I'll take my vin # to the dealership and see what they can come up with as far as what model I have. A few posts ago you mentioned seeing if I have spark coming from the coil. How do I do that? I know the obvious way is to hold the coil wire close to a ground and crank the engine but, I don't want to fry any other electrical parts! So, if there is another way I'd like to know. Thanks again! Dan
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Replying to: greenpickel (Jul 07, 2008 6:02 pm) The all black bumper, plus the ignition control module pretty clearly cinch the issue that it is an XFI. I don't think any further investigation is needed there. So they did make XFIs with automatics!! The reason I asked about the transmission type is that the throttle position switch is different on 5 speed cars than on automatics. A safe method of checking the spark at the coil would be to borrow one of the plug wires from the distributor, along with a clean spark plug. Attach the plug wire directly to the coil, and plug the other end of the wire onto a spark plug. Clamp the metal body of the spark plug so that it is held firmly against a grounded metal object. Turn on the key and crank the engine, while watching the plug electrodes. If the coil is producing a spark, you'll see it jump across the plug gap. |
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