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Toyota Camry, Engine, Oil
#98 of 137 I hope everyone is reading this BS.
Jul 03, 2000 (11:37 pm)
In post 105 I thought I was very clear in what I have been stating. HOOKED ON PHONICS man. I cut and pasted all the way back from Camry 1. YOU are the one who made up the title of this forum not me. I would have said "A high percentage ....show a tendency....without the seize part. That part you made up yourself there Cyw0.
I guess you also didn't read all of Delray's post. Let's get a little cut and paste action here.
It was the service advisor at the Toyota
dealership that mentioned the possibility of sludge when I brought the car in with the blue smoke problem. I didn't prompt him; he simply said the first step would be to remove the valve cover to check for sludge. It seems to me that Toyota knows there is a potential problem with the 4-cylinder engine.
Talk about selective reading.
Maybe it's dyslexia. How's this. SCINOHP NO DEKOOH
#99 of 137 Just say are you going to continue to say or support
Jul 03, 2000 (11:47 pm)
"Most 92+ Camry have sludge problem" or not? That's why this topic exists and that's why you are here. If yes, give us enough reports out of those 3.2 million Camrys. If not, end of this topic.
You found 5 reports, how many reports you want to count here? 4 even including 210delray? Didn't I always say "those 5 or 10 cases". OK, I will just round it and give you 10, is that enough? Just give us enough reports out of those 3.2 million Camrys.
#100 of 137 If you are not supporting the title of this topic,
Jul 03, 2000 (11:54 pm)
why are you bother to argue with anyone who doesn't agree to it? If you still support it, then give us enough of reports to back it up. If you won't support it now, like I said it can be the end of this topic. It's just that easy.
If you want to change to "high percentage" or whatever else, just create you own topic. But again, anyone can ask you to give enough reports to support your "high percentage" statement.
#101 of 137 Why do I have to end it?
Jul 04, 2000 (12:25 am)
I'm just starting to have fun. Like I said before(once again you failed to read)we never actually said the engines WOULD seize but they might. And I have said high percentage at least since post 105 in Camry 1 a long time ago. But I guess you didn't read that.
So since I never said that I don't have to support it.
I have found enough posts to develop reasonable doubt. In a civil case, which this would be considered, I wouldn't have to bring in every Camry owner since 1992. It's totally ignorant of you to think that I would ask every Camry owner that has bought a Camry. I would only have to show that the Camry has a much greater propensity to sludge than any other car. That was easy since Camrys sludge up more than any other modern vehicle.
If you don't think I'm right show me another vehicle with this tendency. You haven't yet and I made that challenge a long time ago.
So in closing I say that no I don't have a million reports of sludged Camrys. But I bet you don't have more than four reports of ANY other single engine that also has sludge.
#102 of 137 no data = don't make outrageous claims
Jul 04, 2000 (3:33 am)
In my line of work (pharmaceutical), we scientists don't operate on making wild claims with insufficient data. Because if I do so carelessly, people die from it.
Fxashun wants to claim that 5 reports = "most camry has sludge problem". Yet 20 reports of Accord transmission problem = "very few are affected". Is there such thing as basic logic?
I have asked many times how he could dissprove the fact that Consumer Report (a much more reputable source than one man, Fxashun, I would think) states that more than 95% Camrys are running fine without engine proble. The answer -- not solid data, not varifiable proof, but the insult that "you need to get out more".
Even Edmund's Townhall alone has 6950+ Camry owners. Only about 5 reported sludge problem. That's 0.0719%, which is consistant with Consumer Report's data of less than 5% problem even after 9 years.
We scientists operate on facts. Not some wild claim or biased claim. We, I hope that's the vast majority of the human population don't consider 0.0719% or less than 5% to equate "most" or "a large percentage".
I call on Fxashun to give us varifiable and solid data, not few individual or anecdotal cases. If someone is going to make wild claim that "most" camry engine has sludge problem, he/she must be prepared to show us that "most" actually do. Now does he or does he NOT have any data as strong enough to dissprove my Consumer Report data that proves his claim is wrong? Or am I just going to get another attempt to avoid the answer by saying "you need to get out more"?
Jul 04, 2000 (4:34 am)
BTW, I'm still interested to find out why sludge occurs in the affected camrys, either infrequent oil change is the culprit, bad oil (penzoil,quaker-state), bunch of cold start, or engine defect alltogether.
So, anyone care to answer my question ? Its much better and more helpful than bickering about it.
#104 of 137 Good try liufi
Jul 04, 2000 (5:32 am)
Let's see here.
1) Had sludge
2) What's the active word here?. I guess some degree of sludge came loose with the new oil. Guess all the sludge was washed out at last. He didn't say he had sludge. He said he GUESSED he had sludge.
3) Usually the grommet in the cover's metered hole gets plugged with sludge. A paper clip can clean it out. He's not talking about the entire engine but the PCV system.
4) He was giving a diagnosis. He hadn't even looked at the engine in question. No one had actually told the guy he had sludge..
5) Once again the guy said he ASSUMED the sludge was the culprit. That's not the same as a person taking their car to the dealer and getting told "your car has sludge".
6) Sludge??? May be.
Let's see there...2 out of 6..That's not bad.
The first sludge mention on the 2.5 is also a diagnosis not a testimonial. And the second you used before. I'm sure if you found that many on the jeep you probably found the same ones I found on the Camry. Here are some actual Camry testimonials.
#105 of 137 Could ya please find where I
Jul 04, 2000 (6:01 am)
said "most". I don't remember it. I thought I always said "a high percentage". Also I think I asked you a whole buncha question the Wenyue...Wanna talk about dodging.
You don't seem to get it do you. There is no data on this. But that's why people come to Edmunds to find out about things that they may not normally find in "Consumer Reports". I know there are people looking under their oil caps because I've seen a few smudged oil caps on trade-ins now. People are tryin' to clean them off. There's more to it than that.
But that's OK. I'm really not trying to convince you (Wenyue and Cyw0). You guys are too dense/stubborn for that. I have always said that anyone really interested in seeing if Camrys have sludge can go look for themselves. I'm just using you to keep "my" forum "hot". So you just keep on a posting and so will I.
And Luifi I hope you don't think my reasons for disagreeing with your posts was petty. I think you see the differences in the ones I used and yours though.
#106 of 137 re:another thing...
Jul 04, 2000 (6:41 am)
Since most people are a bit "mechanically challenged" (not me, I'm totally clueless ^__^),
I think it will be hard to find people that really
think their car has sludge, without just relaying
the answer they got from the mechanic from the shop/dealership.
And what the percentage of those quote are truely honest and not just some way to squeeze some $$$ from the owner?? If you take this into the equation, it will be really hard to prove that a particular car has sludge in it (especially if the car runs fine without apparent problem, which looks like what will happen...unless the engine seizure and such...)
So bottom line is..dont you think we just going around in circle here? ^__^
Jul 04, 2000 (6:51 am)
In Camry forum, you did say "most" and later on try to change to "high percentage". Unfortunately the host did delete many of your post there (you also deleted some of your own post to cover your track). But participants in the Camry forum will gladly back me up.
Also, I'm not the one dodging. I have Consumer Report, a reputable, varifiable source, and contains solid and irrefutable data. You haven't got anything that can stand up to it, besides few isolated cases.
Well, 4-5 individual cases among 3.2 million Camrys out there doesn't mean whole lot. There are probably 5 trouble free Kia's out there, does that mean most of Kia's are bullet proof? Th
So until you have any thing as solid as Consumer Report, you have no ground to say "most" or "high percentage". SO keep looking. And good luck.