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Wagons Subaru Crew Subaru Crew - Future Models II
21504 messages, Last post on Nov 04, 2009 at 10:46 PM
You are in the Subaru Crew Forum. Your Host is kcram
Your Community Leaders are ateixeira and rsholland.
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 02, 2008 7:34 pm) The demand for diesel in the US did not see a significant change over the last few years so it doesn't justify the spike in domestic prices relative to gas. Make it expensive for a while and it kills an emerging market to a point that it won't recover, and passenger diesels are an emerging market in the US. Seems a little contrived to me; you can make up your own minds.
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Replying to: volkov (Dec 02, 2008 10:24 pm) Fuel efficient passenger cars with diesel propulsion were a byproduct of general increase of energy/fuel prices, hence people seeking alternatives and manufacturers following with their R&D. However, the demand for particular fraction of oil that is used in those vehicles rose much faster than demand on gasoline, hence higher price, higher pace of increases, etc. Diesel used to be "the uggly duckling" of the industry, now it's the primary profit driver. No particular conspiracy is needed - oil companies simply faced larger diesel orders, which meant they could ask for higher price. Unlike passenger cars, commercial and agricultural vehicles don't really have alternatives to diesel. There are some CNG/LPG/LNG attempts in commercial use, but it still will take some time to implement them (and falling oil prices don't help). |
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 02, 2008 7:34 pm) Well said, and probably the main reason if the Subaru boxer diesel never makes it here. |
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Well said, and probably the main reason if the Subaru boxer diesel never makes it here But that 2 liter turbo engine might make a great direct injection high mpg addition to the line of GASOLINE engines. Toyota has the technology so why not?
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Replying to: saedave (Dec 03, 2008 11:40 am) The 2GR in the RAV4, Sienna, and Camry are not DI versions. Then again, GM offers the DI 3.6l V6 in the Malibu (and Camaro) yet it is not standard on the CTS. Go figure.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Dec 04, 2008 10:17 am) I doubt if the general public even knows Toyota has any ownership in Subaru (Fugi). So that should not be a problem. Perhaps more pertinent is the possibility that the more expensive new Legacy/Outback models will be DI. DI will probably be necessary to get even close to the coming required Corporate Average Fuel Economy ratings. The DI 2.5i would probably have about 200HP and the 2.0DI might be 180HP. (That 180HP rating was hinted at by Subaru several years ago in survey questions about future 1.8l-2.0l normally aspirated engined lightweight models.)
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Replying to: saedave (Dec 04, 2008 12:29 pm) You know Subaru, though. Just because the Legacy gets DI doesn't mean other cars will. The Legacy still did not get the 3.6l H6.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Dec 04, 2008 12:44 pm) Consumer Reports said there will be a new Legacy next spring: Those models (probably longer and wider and possibly heavier) might need the 3.6l and DI 2.5 just to maintain performance at the present level. The present 3.0l in my Outback is a fine engine if city mpg does not matter....but CAFE will dictate new models' engine availability. Unless the 3.6l is much more efficient than the 3.0l, the 3.6 might disappear along with the Tribeca which is not selling well. Perhaps DI for the 3.6 could improve mpg.
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Replying to: saedave (Dec 05, 2008 6:45 am) Competitors have gone to bigger V6 engines so at this point Subaru would only be catching up.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Dec 05, 2008 12:07 pm) Subaru provided a detailed description of the difficult assembly procedure in an article for SAE International some time ago. I can't remenber the detail. The other major improvement over the 3.0 liter was a new cylinder head design with better cooling for (I believe) the front cylinder to remove a hot spot: this is what permits operation on 87 octane fuel. The cylinder head should have no extra production cost, but the assembly could be costly. If Legacy gets the JATCO CVT, the 3.6 l would more closely equal the characteristics of the Nissan six with which the CVT was originally designed to work.
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