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Wagons Subaru Crew Subaru Crew - Future Models II
21530 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 7:03 AM
You are in the Subaru Crew Forum. Your Host is kcram
Your Community Leaders are ateixeira and rsholland.
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Replying to: once_for_all (Nov 18, 2008 2:37 pm) 1. Awkwardly short powerband 2. Increased engine noise 3. Clunky noise (have you every compared gas to diesel) 4. Increased and unfamiliar maintenance Yeah makes perfect sense. Just as much as first hybrids did at 5 grand over sticker.
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is $2.99, while regular unleaded is now $1.93. That's 50% more for the diesel? No thanks! I can see why Subaru is weighing its options regarding making the diesel boxer 50-state compliant - they could bring it here just in time for gas prices to drop and no-one would buy it! I wish they had gone ahead with the hybrid - they could have shared Toyota's HSD without much cost, presumably, since Toyota is part owner these days. I suppose it would have been difficult to develop that powertrain to include Subaru's boxer 2.0 |
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 02, 2008 5:18 am) It's better suited for towing, if that's your thing. Last thing may be longevity. Diesels tend to have a longer life, though Subaru's is new and not yet proven in the long-term. Still, for $1800 more, with fuel costing 50% more, you simply will never break even. Actually, you'd pay more up front and continue spending more for the life of the vehicle, unless diesel prices drop.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Dec 02, 2008 8:02 am) They used to. A lot of durability/ruggedness advantages of diesel were defeated with new pollution restrictions and turbocharging. Old Mercedes 300D diesel was a N/A engine that would literally last milion miles and run on a vegetable oil. No more - those new cute Bluetec diesel engines have about the same level of complexity and sensitivity as those high-output gas engines. Which means, very sensitive to fuel, very maintenance intensive and not as long lasting between overhauls, etc. That applies not only to those passenger car diesels, but also to those big truck/bus diesel engines as well. If anything, it looks to me diesels kind to run into a dead end.
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 02, 2008 8:19 am) -mike Subaru Guru and Track Instructor |
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 02, 2008 3:03 pm) |
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 02, 2008 3:03 pm) However, all that was recently put in question as the diesel price rose disproportionally to gasoline (currently in US we have almost 50% higher price; in Europe they are about even or diesel is just slightly more). The prognosis are for diesel price go even higher in proportion to gasoline. It really spiraled to levels at which passenger diesel practically defeats itself. So yes - cheaper to make fuel became more expensive simply because more machines want it. I would say adding even more machines running on the same expensive fuel makes very little sense, especially that alternatives are better in those applications.
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 02, 2008 7:34 pm) The demand for diesel in the US did not see a significant change over the last few years so it doesn't justify the spike in domestic prices relative to gas. Make it expensive for a while and it kills an emerging market to a point that it won't recover, and passenger diesels are an emerging market in the US. Seems a little contrived to me; you can make up your own minds.
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Replying to: volkov (Dec 02, 2008 10:24 pm) Fuel efficient passenger cars with diesel propulsion were a byproduct of general increase of energy/fuel prices, hence people seeking alternatives and manufacturers following with their R&D. However, the demand for particular fraction of oil that is used in those vehicles rose much faster than demand on gasoline, hence higher price, higher pace of increases, etc. Diesel used to be "the uggly duckling" of the industry, now it's the primary profit driver. No particular conspiracy is needed - oil companies simply faced larger diesel orders, which meant they could ask for higher price. Unlike passenger cars, commercial and agricultural vehicles don't really have alternatives to diesel. There are some CNG/LPG/LNG attempts in commercial use, but it still will take some time to implement them (and falling oil prices don't help). |
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