Last post on Aug 22, 2006 at 1:43 PM
You are in the Toyota Camry
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Camry Solara, Toyota Camry, Sedan
#999 of 5279 rangerwillie
Aug 20, 2002 (3:13 pm)
I checked the individual shop manuals on a 1985 Toyota Celica , 1991 Lexus LS400 , 1994 4Runner and a 2002 Camry and all these Toyota automatics without exception , prevent ( their word is prohibit ) up shifting to overdrive with engine coolant temps below 140 to 158 deg F for emission reasons . It would appear your car is shifting as per design at the present time and is in that respect " normal ". Toyota is subject to the same emission laws as all other manufacturers and this method of complying for faster warmup is common to many vehicles with ECT's and has been for many years . I would look at delayed warmup possibly due to the thermostat ?.
Aug 20, 2002 (4:18 pm)
As I said, my car did not do this for the 1st 20,000 plus miles I owned it, so in that respect it is certainly not normal.
I am glad the shop manual says this is the way it is designed, gives me confidence that it won't die.
I believe you when you say that other manufacturers use this engine warm-up method also. But in my experience no other car I've driven, nor my friends toyota's, do this. Perhaps, they do, but their shift into overdrive is not as "clunky", and therefore not noticeable. I say this b/c when it does finally shift into overdrive, it jerks pretty hard. That's the only reason I ever noticed it anyway.
I never said I had delayed warm-up. My car warms all the way to operating temp. in about 1 minute after placed under load (driving).
I do notice that it will not warm-up for sometimes 10 minutes or longer if I just let it idle (such as in in winter). I assumed this was normal since the owners manual says not to let it warm-up for more than a 30 secs- it says to just drive it soon after starting (or something to that effect). I always thought that was odd, my wifes buick would warm up in 2-3 mins while idling under exact same conditions. And I was taught to let an engine warm-up before driving it. But it never worried me b/c of what manual says, just strange.
I replaced the thermostat a while back anyway(good preventative measure at this age and mileage). Old one was working fine, and I noticed no change in warm-up/operating temp.
On the topic, this was the first car I changed the thermostat on where it was located off the lower (instead of upper) radiator hose. Is this a toyota thing, a foreign make thing, or maybe just a FWD/electric fan thing? I can't remember if I ever changed one on FWD before, that's why I ask.
Aug 20, 2002 (4:23 pm)
BTW- Are those manuals from vehicles you owned? Did you buy them from Toyota dealer? I was just thinking, that must be expensive.
I bought a Chilton's for my car (used it for struts)- but it would be handy to have one from Toyota
#1002 of 5279 Re: Rangerwillie
Aug 20, 2002 (4:25 pm)
Thanks for the information. I think my Camry problem is more mechanically involved than that. The morning problem goes away but the 40mph problem is there all the time. To me it feels like a problem where the drive shaft inserts into the transmission as if there is an extreme amount of play or looseness. If you let off the gas for a second and the idle goes down and go to accellerate again the transmission like catches the drive shaft (cluck)which you feel throughout the car. This transition should be smooth during accelleration not like it's catching. Thanks again...U.S. Army PA.
Aug 20, 2002 (10:03 pm)
Your problem definitely sounds likes something wrong w/ your transmission- especially a brand new car. There should be no hard "clunking" in an automatic transmission at any speed, temp., shift point, etc. Older, high mileage ones eventually will, but it is never good thing.
You said it was a 2002 right? Have you taken it to the dealer? They should fix it under warranty!
Don't let them give you the "could not duplicate problem" BS. Make the service manager take a ride w/ you so you can show them the problem.
#1004 of 5279 O/D Shifting when cold
Aug 21, 2002 (11:00 am)
I know that I have seen this (when cold does not shift into overdrive) either in my owner's manual or service manual (the two book set) in writing, which is why I said this is normal operation. If I can remember to look I wil note the language. I did not state that this was normal because my 92 has done it since I can remember but because I did see it in writing somewhere in these manuals.
And. some engines do have knocks which the manufacturer says are normal. So, who defines normal, manufacturer or what the owner perceives as should be normal?
Aug 21, 2002 (11:20 am)
Thanks, I will have the service manager drive the car this evening. Do you anything about the ECU?
Aug 21, 2002 (3:44 pm)
I believe if you read ALL my posts carefully, you'll see that what I've said ALL along is that MY transmission in MY car is NOT normal.
I am not saying YOUR transmission is not normal. I am glad (as I said previously) that the symptom I described is stated to be normal by Toyota. I never said I did not believe you. I never said I did not believe Toyota that this is the way they are supposed to operate (after someone stated this is in the shop manual, Paul29, I think- before that it was just hearsay from a dealer).
But MY transmission CAN'T be normal since it did not ALWAYS do this- began around 78,000 miles... like I said in my first post!
Normal implies ordinary- when something is out of the ordinary it is said to be ABNORMAL. My transmission would be abnormal because it began behaving out of the ordinary for itself around 78,000 miles!
If you read post# 961 you'll see that I say perhaps it started shifting harder after 78,000 miles, and I only noticed it then. Either way, it has not been "normal" since that time.
Aug 21, 2002 (4:10 pm)
I suppose you were referring to my comments about GM's engine knock problem?
Again, go carefully read my post... I said "GM truck owner's engines".
I didn't say "some engines". You said that.
Yes, engine knocking on cold start can be a normal noise. Often, the valve lifters are dry and will "knock" till the oil pump gets enough oil up there- this would be normal (though still not a great thing- thinner usually oil helps).
GM's problem which I alluded to, has been documented several times as piston slap. Piston slap is "not normal". It is bad, it causes premature wear. If you read any of the posts over there, you'll see that it generally only happens in 1 or 2 cylinders. If normal, why not all 8 cylinders?
But since GM is the manufacturer, and they are telling owners it is normal, I guess you would side with GM. You stated...
"And. some engines do have knocks which the manufacturer says are normal. So, who defines normal, manufacturer or what the owner perceives as should be normal?"
So even though many owners w/ knocking engines have vehicles that burn a quart of oil in less than 3000 miles (on a brand new truck!!), I guess it is normal cause GM says so.
BTW- If I had said any knocking in any engine, then you would have a point. But I didn't, I alluded to GM's current problem. I don't mind arguing, but please, don't put words in my mouth.
And I sincerely apologize for not believing the transmission thing was normal, till Paul29 said it was in the toyota shop manuals (and you later said that, armtdm). You were right.
I have a mistrust of dealer's words (especially Toyota and Ford, since my worst treatment was at these places). And I think other people had said their Toyota dealer told them this was normal, hence my disbelief.
Aug 21, 2002 (4:28 pm)
ECU is the ignition module, correct?
I don't see how it could have anything to do w/ your transmission problem- but I could easily be wrong. Is that what you're wondering, anyway?
Hopefully someone else who knows vastly more than I do will answer.