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Maintenance & Repair Synthetic motor oil
8536 messages, Last post on Nov 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM
You are in the Maintenance & Repair Forum. Your Host is mr_shiftright
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 19, 2009 4:15 pm) By the same token, no store or dealer selling oil can back a warranty. Kragen is not going to put a new engine in for you, nor is an oil distributor. Basicallly, if your engine fails, you're on your own to prove your case. The factory can (and usually does) tell you to either prove your case with extensive evidence or go pound sand. And frankly, if I were the factory, that's probably what I'd require as well." Actually, many factory warranties have paid for thousands of sludged up engine repairs because the engines were prone to sludge even when following the manufacturers recommended oils and oil change intervals. I'd provide a detailed list of years, makes, models, extended warranty information, etc., but I've been told by the host not to provide links to the AMSOIL website even if it is technical data. The vehicle manufacturers that did provide sludged up engine repairs are: Toyota, VW, Audi, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Lexus, and Saab. Of course Kragen is not going to pay for the engine if the oil failed. It would be the oil company, if their warranty covers it. And if the engine fails under warranty, the vehicle manufacturer or the oil company has to prove why it is not covered in writing. The burden of proof is on the company, not the consumer.
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Replying to: timvipond (Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm) No, that is the way it *should* be. In my experience, it is actually the other way around.  Frankly, companies typically do a better job covering their rears in these situations than the average consumer. Combine that with them holding all the cards, and, unless the consumer has a sympathetic representative (either at a dealership or at the manufacturer), it is likely a long and challenging uphill battle. Again, it is all about the bottom line. If there is any room for doubt, it is likely to be exploited. Huge companies typically do not care about the individual consumer - they care about their reputation. |
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Replying to: timvipond (Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm) The factories paid all right--- after a bloody, take-no-prisoners, hand-to-hand combat and a massive consumer jihad on the Internet against Toyota and VW. It is the American consumer and his doggedness that deserves credit for having those engines warrantied. And the media pitched in. I was initially as guilty as the automakers on this one. I was leaning toward blaming careless owners and sensationalist journalism. But you know, as the facts kept rolling in, I came to realize I was wrong and the consumers were right. Sometimes automakers step up to the plate and sometimes they don't, With engine sludge, they definitely did not until a gun was put to their heads. And alas---- I myself have yet to see (or even hear of) a case of an oil company paying a warranty on a sludge complaint after the factory refused to. There may be one out there, but I've never seen it. I'd really like to have someone come on board who has had this experience successfully concluded. Bottom line for me is this: If you want to avoid trouble, use the best quality oils and filters, and if you're really keen for it, oil analysis. And either do it yourself or watch them like a hawk when they do it. I've never lost an engine in one of my cars. YOU are your best warranty. Do not expect some large entity to bail you out when you snap your fingers. A SOBERING THOUGHT: On many used cars 5 to 10 years old, loss of the engine totals the car out. It's a write-off. Value of a 2000 Passat 1.8T with a blown engine? Close to nothing.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 20, 2009 6:32 am) That is generally a very reasonable initial assumption, though. 
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 20, 2009 6:32 am) "YOU are your best warranty. Do not expect some large entity to bail you out when you snap your fingers." AMSOIL paid a few of these claims right away and was eventually reimbursed by the auto manufacturer. |
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Replying to: jeffyscott (Nov 20, 2009 6:49 am) Most such claims will burn up in the fire of careful research, but some don't---they remain intact, suggesting that they are quite substantial. I think what really put me over the edge was when engines started showing up that were heavily sludged with very low miles on them. That was just too weird. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 20, 2009 6:56 am)
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Replying to: richardson (Nov 20, 2009 6:49 pm) I bet anything that it true. Before Toyota went to the cartridge oil filter, the factory oil filter used a RED o-ring on the oil filter - that's how they could easily tell that the oil filter was from the factory. I know 3 people with these so-called sludge-prone engines. They all had their oil changed per factory required schedule, and they had NO sludge, no problems. Two of them went slightly past 100k miles before they traded/sold them, and the third I think was just over 90k.
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Replying to: mcdawgg (Nov 21, 2009 5:03 am) |
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Replying to: mcdawgg (Nov 21, 2009 5:03 am) But the exception was those cases where people did in fact change it regularly, and still got sludge. And when Toyota suggested to THESE people that they were guilty, they got furious and opened up a media blitz that I think scared the hell out of Toyota. |
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