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SUVs Mercedes Benz M-Class Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier
8165 messages, Last post on Nov 19, 2009 at 5:29 AM
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Replying to: markjenn (Oct 18, 2005 9:16 am) I went with the independent shop because the Mercedes dealer kept telling me that my brakes were needing replacement when I took it in for oil changes. I had them change the back brakes at 18,000 miles of which now I'm sure it was too early. At 26,000 miles, they said the front needed replacement. I said NO, because the brake sensor light had not come on. I decided that I would wait until the light came on but it never did. I knew that the light probably would have come on soon at 41,000 miles but I was going on a 1,000 mile trip and didn't want to worry about the brakes. I think the independent shop did a good job as I have used them for other purposes with my antique car. I did not want to reward the dealer for telling me I needed new front brakes at 26,000 and I went to 41,000 with no problems. What a racket! Mark 
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Replying to: mark156 (Oct 18, 2005 4:48 pm) 1. The dealer generally recommends replacing brake pads when they're about 50%-70% worn, which nearly doubles the service intervals. Just by inspecting the brakes yourself (which takes five minutes with a flashlight) and postponing replacement until they are below spec, you can reduce brake maintenance costs by one third to one half. 2. The dealer recommends replacing rotors along with pads even though the rotors meet spec. 3. The dealer charges above list price for the parts when OEM parts are readily available on the internet at less than half their price. 4. The dealer charges about 40% more for labor than a good ndependent mechanic. Add it all together, and the cost savings are EASILY 75% or greater. As an example, I just priced out a complete brake job with all new OEM parts over the internet. The total cost for BRAND NEW OEM PADS AND ROTORS is about $320+shipping. A good independent shop should charge about $200 labor to install the rotors and pads. Even with tax and shipping, the total cost should be well under $600. My dealer, who just did the harmonic balancer replacement and as a "courtesy" inspected my brakes, estimates $1350+tax for them to do the job, WELL OVER DOUBLE THE COST. Absolutely ridiculous. My particular dealer is generally incompetent as well but that's another story. Cheers, - Mark
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Replying to: markjenn (Oct 18, 2005 10:59 pm)  The Mercedes dealer that I use ( I use two different dealers as I have two homes in different states) and they both are average on diagnosing problems. I really like my service advisors but they are only as good as the mechanics doing the work. When I had my '91 560SEL, they could not figure out why it would not start. After throwing a few parts at it, they finally said it needed new fuel injectors. I made them take off the parts that were not related. When they installed the new injection system, it failed and they had to do it all over again (at no charge of course). The first time was $2,000. From 53,000-82,000 miles, I spent $8,000 in repairs and decided I better let it go. They air condition and transmission had never been worked on. I was afraid that they might be next. Mark 
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Replying to: mark156 (Oct 19, 2005 12:21 pm) I really like my ML320, and I think, on average, you can own and drive one without undue hardship, but you've got to be a lot more creative with respect to diagnosing and fixing problems than you would need to be if you owned, say, a Pilot. In my experience, MB dealers are extremely high overhead operations, with a "let's try and bolt on new parts" mentality towards problems. The dealers also tend to have a very convoluted communication system where you deal with a service advisor who is seldom very strong technically while your car is worked on by someone working remotely. The connection between the two is by computer and work orders, but things get very garbled in translation - it's like they're talking to each other in different languages over two tin cans tied together by string. With an independent mechanic, you can generally talk to the guy who is getting his fingernails dirty. If you have to rely on the MB dealers, I think extended warrantys and leasing are probably the best way to go to reduce the risk. My dealer's biggest screw up was in diagnosing a subtle but presistent problem where the vehicle would lose power and stall when climbing over mountain passes. In three lengthly and expensive service visits under warranty they replaced several things, mostly in the ignition system, none of which had any effect whatsoever on the problem. This was despite my strong suggestions that it was fuel-delivery related. On the final visit, with the vehicle now out of warranty, I got a different service advisor and he immediately asked me if the vehicle had had the mandatory update to the fuel filter system designed to reduce high altitude stalling problems. The whole time they were hunting around randomly fixing things, there was a published service bulletin to fix the exact problem I was having! At this ponit, they refused to make the repair on their dime since the vehicle was out of warranty. I finally arm wrestled them into paying for the update while I paid them for a new fuel filter since this was a normal maintenance item. - Mark
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Replying to: markjenn (Oct 17, 2005 8:22 am) You're gonna love this. The dealer has now told me that it appears that the engine has 3 damaged pistons and rings causing a loss of compression. They now have the engine out (it's taken them 3 weeks to get this far) and have said that they're going to tell me next Tuesday (25th October) if that is the only work that needs doing. I'm away in England next week but will keep you posted on my return with the great ML saga!
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Replying to: rickknight1 (Oct 20, 2005 10:27 am) - Mark
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Replying to: markjenn (Oct 20, 2005 11:14 am) I wasn't aware of this at all. My ML55 is April 2002. A little bit of history on it: I bought it used. It was originally a German car and the garage that I bought it from imported it from Germany and put it on Spanish plates. How long is the MB warranty for and do you think that I would still be covered due to the re-registration (although I can't see that this should affect the warranty). You seem to know you ML's, do you (or did you) work for MB? Rick.
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Replying to: rickknight1 (Oct 20, 2005 1:28 pm) I doubt the extended warranty would apply to your car, although it might be ammunition to use to get MB to cover it under goodwill. I don't think the car being a used car is any problem; the issue would be that the warranty is probably specific to the USA since it came from MBUSA. Also, the warranty covers cars which were serviced with conventional (rather than synthetic) oil. Your car was probably built and serviced after MB started using and recommending synthetic oil exclusively. The warranty was part of MBUSA's settlement with US owners after a class action lawsuit was filed. Basically, it extends the engine warranty to 150K and 10 years for problems related to sludging and other oil problems attributable to the use of conventional (rather than synthetic) motor oils as MB originally specified and as was commonly used in MB's "free scheduled maintenance" program. In March 2001 MB changed their recommendations to always require synthetic oil. Good luck with your car, - Mark
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Replying to: markjenn (Oct 20, 2005 9:30 am) I have a 99 ML 320 with the same symptoms (high altitude loss of power). The engine runs fine at low rpms but revs extremely roughly with almost no power. Most times you are forced to pull over quickly as the power loss comes on suddenly (not fun it you are on a 2 lane mountain highway with little shoulder). Some times you can limp along on the reduced power; other times you have to shut the car down for some time and the problem usually goes away. I believed the issue could be related to the fuel pump, which has been known to overheat and have issues on the early MLs (I have not replaced the pump). But the problem doesn't occur on every trip to elevation, but probably more than half. I figured that this is just a difficult intermittent idiosyncrasy that would never be successfully diagnosed as I live in the SF Bay Area (where the problem has never occurred). But I travel often to Lake Tahoe and LA and both destinations have passes from 4000-7000 ft elevation. I recently learned about the fuel filter update from my independent repair shop and believed that the update might also take care of the high altitude problem. Nope: the stall problem occurred again when I recently drove up to about 8000 ft. in order to climb Mt Whitney. But then, returning home through Lk Tahoe, it didn't stall at 7000 ft. So, my guess is that this nagging problem lives on, at least for me. Let me know if your car's trouble at elevation has been permanently solved. --John B
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Replying to: jbors (Oct 25, 2005 9:58 am) Now you've got me worred again!  I'm cautiously optimistic that the problem is gone. I've taken a couple trips since the repair in situations where the problem would often occur and had no issues. But as you are noting, that's no guarantee - I've had instance where the problem would happen early in a trip, I'd limp along for an hour or so, and then be fine for a thousand miles afterwards. Extremely frustrating. But since the repair (about one year and 15K miles ago), not a hiccup. There may be some interaction between a marginal fuel pump (which as you note has been very problematic, especially on the early models) and the filter as well. Perhaps a new fuel filter on mine has masked a fuel pump problem that is still there. On one of my repair trips, I pushed MB hard just to get a new/updated fuel pump, but for some reason then pushed back hard, did a bunch of diagnostic work, and decided to replace the crankshaft position sensor. At this time, they said they'd replace the pump if the problem re-occurred, but when it did a year later, I got a new service advisor that said all they'd do is the fuel filter update. Needless to say, I'm never buying another MB product. When I started to have the problem, it seemed temperature related in that high/hot was the likely scenario, but just before the new fuel filter, I had it happen on a winter ski trip, so this sorta blew the overheating theory out of the water. And on one trip, the problem was especially severe and we tried leaving the gas cap off. This seemed to solve the problem on this trip. This made me think the perhaps it was related to fuel tank venting. If the problem ever comes back, I'll sell the car. I've given this issue all the time and trouble I care to. Life's too short. - Mark |
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