Last post on Aug 14, 2013 at 8:07 PM
You are in the Mercedes Benz M-Class
What is this discussion about?
Mercedes-Benz M-Class, Mercedes-Benz ML55 AMG, SUV
#7612 of 8199 Also a slaesman in California told me today
Jan 25, 2005 (2:24 am)
at about 5 PM as I sat in Corona and he in Orange county that Benz will have a new 2006 E320 CDI (yep, deisel) availble for sale as new in Calfornia in 2006.
I said, "I can't believe they can make the NO exmission requiremtns." He said he did not know but that is what he was told. All this darn verbal stuff.
If I recall correctly, in 2006, CA will mandate the low sulfer deisel fule, whihc will help meeth the tough CA requriments, but not the NO, unless the use a hybrid do reduce pull on the diesel -- NO is a big byproduct when the engine is called to do high acceleration.
#7613 of 8199 Re: Also a slaesman in California told me today [aaaedgarpoe]
Jan 25, 2005 (9:01 am)
The Euro CDI engines, MB as well as VW, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford, and others are all ultra clean-burn engines with very low NOx emissions due to special secondary burn features and dual or triple stage catalyst. Meeting the NOx and CO2 standards for CA is a no brainer. The CDI can meet the 2006 standards today.
Worse news for you, the fuel is already low sulphur. The EPA has some information at http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/diesel/diesel.htm though there is another site, perhaps in the bio-diesel relm, that indicates the refineries in Cal and AZ are ALREADY meeting the low sulfer standards.
I too have been told by MB USA and the kind folks at Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach that the ML will be available in CY 2006 with the 320 CDI power train. Though I am anxious to buy the new ML 320 I may wait the extra eight months, ML not due until April I am told, to let the initial quality issues work out and then snag a clean burn diesel.
By the way, check out biodeisel as an environmental option. http://www.biodiesel.org/ There is an interesting test of the new Jeep CRD diesel that uses the ML 280 CDI engine. These are available in the UK but will never see the US market as MB USA wants to segement the US market for higher priced/margin vehicles.
#7614 of 8199 Thanks -- I read the CA air web site and..
Jan 25, 2005 (10:34 pm)
Production and import of Deisel must comply with 15 ppm sulfer by 1 June 2006. Sale of deisel (except comsumer use) must comply with 15 ppm by 15 July 2006. On 1 September 2006 all deisel sold in CA must meet the 15 ppm sulfer requirement. Currently the deisel can be upto 500 ppm sulfer.
If Benz is going to sell a 'europen' type deisel, then it will have to wait till 1 Sept 2006, or they risk having to replace lots of clogged fule injectors on their warranty. So your wait maynot be 8 months, but 18 months.
#7615 of 8199 Re: Thanks -- I read the CA air web site and.. [aaaedgarpoe]
Jan 26, 2005 (11:08 am)
If that turns out to be the case I'll most likely opt for the gas ML 350 model. That is provided it can break into the 20's with highway MPG. If not, it will be an XC 90 or X3 for me.
I find it hard to believe that MB can not put the ML on a serious weight reduction program while improving the power efficiency at the same time to deliver a vehicle capable of 22+ MPG highway. This should be a reasonable expectation at the price point anticipated.
#7616 of 8199 Deisel for the M-class -- jpouchet
Jan 26, 2005 (11:38 pm)
I spoke with a service tech at MB today and he said it is possible, though he does not know for sure, that once the low sulfer diesel comes out, there might be kit they can be installed (he thinks it might be an eash modification) with the high fule injectors -- so I think, go ahead and buy the M-class deisel in Jan 06 and upgrade to the high milage injectors once the low sulfer fuel is out in CA on 1 Sep 06.
I would guess (dumbo talking here) it would probably be new injectors and may be a firmware change to the suv's computer brain.
#7617 of 8199 Deisel for the M-class
Jan 27, 2005 (6:26 am)
This is very exciting that MB is putting a diesel in the M-class. The MB statement says calendar year 06, does anyone know what that means, early or late in 06? Our MDX lease is up in July, so if this suv is indeed coming, I will buy the mdx out and wait for the diesel to arrive so we're not locking into another lease. The E320 gas and E320 cdi are priced very close, do we think the MLcdi will be about the same price as the ML350? If they price this the same as the ML350 and can get 30 mpg, sign me up.
Jan 27, 2005 (7:48 am)
30 mpg for a ML diesel was just thrown out in a post designed to show the diesel in a favorable light, economy wise. This sounds wildly optimistic to me.
The Touareg comes in gas and diesel versions and the mileage goes from 14/18 to 17/23, a 20-25% or so increase. I think this is a lot more represenative of what you can expect of a diesel ML compared to a gas ML, not the 75% increase from 17 mpg to 30 mpg that the poster hypothesized.
#7619 of 8199 How can I claim such an increase in mpg on deisel?
Jan 27, 2005 (8:43 am)
I'm not talking about todays deisel engines in the us on the T-reg or otherwise. I'm talking european deisel that have much higher injector pressure and smaller holes. I'm talking about getting european type mpg as of 1 Sep 06 when the low sulfer diesel oil is mandated to be pumped to consumers. I believe your 20-25% increase based on todays lower pressure injectors that have to cope with the high level of sulfer in diesel oil in the US today.
Jan 27, 2005 (11:37 am)
Okay, I'll give you a 30% increase. Perhaps 35%. But a new type of injector is not going make diesels get nearly double the mileage of equivalent gas cars. You're not going to repeal the laws of thermodynamics with a new injector design.
Jan 27, 2005 (12:19 pm)
Lets look at the E320 - gas version gets 20/28 compared to the diesel version 27/37, which is about 35% better. ML 350 gas gets 15/18 - 35% better would be 20/24. My MDX gets close to 24 on long highway cruising. The VW touareg V10 is getting 23 highway, I would hope with the new fuel, the ML cdi being a smaller engine than the V10 would be pushing past the 25 mpg.