Last post on Jun 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM
You are in the Jeep Cherokee and Jeep Grand Cherokee
What is this discussion about?
Jeep Grand Cherokee, SUV
Aug 12, 2001 (2:33 pm)
Where do you find information when your Toyota Highlander has problems? If you have a specific problem not available in the literature, do you ask your neighbor who drives a GMC Jimmy? The fact that you are involved in this discussion indicates to me that you give some credence to the views expressed here at Edmunds. IF you have taken the time to read ALL 518 posts, you will see patterns emerging for specific problems for specific model years. The information IS invaluable from a consumer standpoint to find and correct problems. If all JGC owners expressed their views about their vehicles' performances here, then your remarks in post #514 MIGHT be 100% justified. The fact is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". And if it doesn't need fixing, why talk about it? Therefore, the posts here are skewed toward problems and solutions. I know because I've posted those problems with my 2001 JGC. The gear whine is back, both front and rear. Yes, it needs repairs again and that's why there is a warranty. I was extremely happy with my 1993 JGC (1st model year) before I sold it-to a friend.
As a consumer, I do my homework. I follow the media and this message board for information about JGC.
You are absolutely correct that people should demand a quality product. Your solution assumes: 1)that ALL Jeep products are junk and therefore should not be purchased. Jeep gives owners 3 years/30k miles to work out the problems. Like all durable goods producers, auto manufacturers must rely on their reputation to encourage repeat sales and references. The consumer still has the final say.
2)people demand perfection. Certain vehicle parts are made to wear out and be replaced. SUVs (especially 4x4s) have more working parts than autos. So, more maintenance is needed. I accepted that fact when purchasing the JGC. The expectations of many people are too high.
I don't see people flocking to this site, or anywhere else, saying Jeep Grand Cherokee is awful so don't buy it.
All I see is you making an inflammatory statement based purely on speculation about a subject of which you have no knowledge. Ford Explorer has many problems, too. Look at THAT message board. Finally, if you something constructive to say, let's hear it!
#548 of 2512 to anthony
Aug 12, 2001 (2:53 pm)
thanks for setting the record straight RE: jeep & liberty etc. we may still differ on CR.
I hope we are right about the liberty. It is the first jeep product I have owned so I guess I'm taking my chances based on past history. I will be the first to critisize jeep if owners start reporting problems in droves. Since there is not a whole lot of history with this vehicle, I can only comment on the quality of the build components and the fit and finish. Both appear to be excellent so far. I have a limited w/the G package, and compared to a comparable tribute ES interior, the liberty is noticably better.
give it a year or so & the mechanical reviews will start coming in.
#549 of 2512 Jeep Grand Cherokee 2002
Aug 12, 2001 (3:11 pm)
When will the 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee be in the showrooms?
Aug 12, 2001 (4:13 pm)
are now arriving.
I saw several today. 4x4 badge is now under Jeep badge on the tailgate. Roof rack croos bars are missing. The base price seems to have dropped quite a bit (around $2K?). Full-size spare is now standard.
Aug 12, 2001 (5:01 pm)
I was shopping at a Jeep dealer near Atlanta today and found only two 2002 models on the lot. They had a large selection of GC's in inventory (more than 50).
The one that I looked at was missing the roof rack cross bars and protective rubber strips on the roof.
Comparing factory window stickers from identically equipped 2001 and 2002 models, I noticed the gas mileage ratings for the 2002 were 19 hwy, 14 city for the V8 - a little lower than the 2001's. The cargo net feature was not listed on the 2002 sticker (it was specifically listed on the 2001 sticker). And the MSRP was less for the 2002 model at $32,665 vs. $35,845 for the 2001.
I am unable to find very much info on the internet for the 2002's yet. Maybe someone can explain the missing cross bars and cargo nets, and the mileage and MSRP differences?
#553 of 2512 The new Liberty...
Aug 12, 2001 (5:38 pm)
is also not coming through with roof rack cross bars. They're a dealer option. That could also be the case with the new '02 Grand Cherokee.
I wonder what else they cut out, in order to lower the MSRP? I'm glad to see a full-size spare as now being standard.
#554 of 2512 Roof rails are better
Aug 12, 2001 (6:51 pm)
I'd rather get a vehicle with roof rails and no cross bars. If you're serious about using a rack, you'll want to put your own rack system like Thule, etc. It is difficult to get a wide variety of attachments (kayak) for manufacturer's roof rack bars.
Aug 12, 2001 (7:53 pm)
Wow, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or what?
I'll try and address the questions and comments you made: As far as where I would go if I had a problem with my Highlander not found in any literature....I would do what everyone else has done here. Post a message asking if anyone else has had the same problem I was experiencing. Yes, I do value and give much credence to the posts at Edmunds. Why? Because the sum total of so many experiances, both good and bad, is invaluable information when thinking about purchasing a vehicle.
No, I haven't read all 518 posts but I've read the vast majority of them here as well as most of the others in the SUV forums. I didn't have to read all of them here to discover the same thing you did, namely the patterns emerging that you mentioned for specfic problems for specfic model years.
You seem to imply mostly negative comments are written here about the GC, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and you state that the comments here are skewed towards problems and solutions. There are some people who are happy with their GC. Not all the posts are negative. My point is that there seems to be a much higher amount of people with problems then a lot of the other SUV forums. Let me ask you this? Why aren't some of the other forums skewed toward problems and solutions? The answer.... Much better quality therefore less problems. Please, don't mention the Ford Explorer. I consider them in the same arena as the Jeep GC, just as problematic, again based on available information from different sources. The Ford Escape? Five recalls? Sorry, no excuse for that. There now appears to be a problem with the engines dieing for no reason while being operated. Check out the Escape forum for more info on this.
Regarding your GC you state " Yes, it needs repairs again and that's why there is a warranty". This is what I don't understand frankly. You sound so complacent, like this is what is supposed to happen with all 4WD vehicles. That the same parts are suppose to break down and that, ol well, it's under warranty so who cares. Guess what? It's not. A warranty is to cover mechanical failure within a certain mileage/time frame. If the same parts keep failing what happens after the warranty? Better yet what happens when the same parts fail and Jeep decides that it will no longer cover the repairs even though it's within the warranty period?
The rotors are a good example of this. Rotors going after 3-6000 miles is normal? Can all those people who posted here be wrong? Can all those who complained to NHTSA be wrong? I've read a lot of posts about this problem as well as the gear whine, the death wobble etc...I have three friends at work who have GC. None of them is happy and the list of constant problems and repeat problems is too long to list. There experiances are in line with what is posted here as well as what was reported in CR. That the Jeep GC seems to have an inordinate amount of problems, say a higher percent of problems as compared to others.
Why would a person tolerate these problems is what I can't fathom?
I never said that ALL Jeep products are junk. Just that based on ALL the available information, they seem to have a much higher incidence of problems then some others. Yes, Jeep does give you a 3 year/36,000 warranty. I thought that was to cover the occasional problem that might pop up not to cover the same problems repeating themselves over and over until Jeep decides it won't cover it anymore because they realize that they can't fix it. Not to mention all the aggravation of getting the vehicle repaired and the down time. Sorry, but my time is too important wasting it waiting for my vehicle to get repaired . Again.
As to your comment that people demand perfection...you are kidding right? I don't think anyone expects perfection from any car model. How about that the same parts don't fail? Or maybe when they are repaired, they stay that way? How about not having a laundry list of problems over the life of the vehicle? How about if a part can't be fixed (say brake rotors) that the manufactor issues a recall for an obvious defect/poor design instead of telling people they won't cover it anymore, sorry. For a $30,000 plus vehicle, is that really too much to ask for? I don't think so.....
You say more maintenance is required with 4wd's. I agree with that. You seem to equate maintenance with defective parts and poor workmanship. There is a huge difference. You say that the expectations of people are too high? Again, you have to be kidding..... I EXPECT a quality product, one that will last without the same problems coming up again.....I EXPECT the manufacturer to respond to any problems I might have in a fair way....I EXPECT decent resale value when the time comes to sell it and I EXPECT an enjoyable experiance while driving it. Is that really too much to ask? I agree with you that consumers have the final say. That is why DC has had massive layoffs, declining market share, and loads of 2001's on the dealer lots that they can't get rid of.
I don't think anything I previously posted could be considered inflammatory. Not sure where you got that from. Could you be more specfic? Speculation? The negative posts here are speculation? CR and NHTSA speculation? I don't think so. A subject of which I have no knowledge? Because you own a GC that automatically makes you a more informed person about cars? Maybe about getting repairs done (sorry couldn't resist that one ). I seemed to have hit a nerve with you re: my last post, why I'm not sure. As I told winbro, as long as you are happy with your GC, that's all that matters.
My point is that people, especially people who have purchased the same vehicle line all their lives, shouldn't just resign themselves to the fact that poor workmanship and inherent design problems are what's to be expected. (I remember one lady in the Ford forum state that "I've always purchased Fords so I guess I'll buy another". Gee, what a stunning endorsement!! If more people would stop buying junk, car makers would be FORCED to improve, thereby causing consumers less headaches.
Please don't take things so personal. They are only cars.....As to your last comment....I didn't think that saying something 'constructive', at least your definition of constructive whatever that may be, was a prerequisite to posting here. I thought these forums were for exchanging idea's, opinions and experiences. Did I miss something? Good luck with the GC !!!!