Last post on Dec 31, 2012 at 1:53 PM
You are in the Toyota Sequoia
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Sequoia, SUV
#8020 of 8984 Gosh, you guys are uptight...
Feb 28, 2004 (6:32 pm)
I can appreciate the zeal with which you guys defend your cars, but I should say that some of your posts are downright nasty and rude. Seems to me that if you were so confident in your choice of car, you would be kinder and less defensive.
In any event, here are some clarifications to some of the points raised in the diatribe against my prior post:
Why would I buy a fourth Chrysler after previous "lemons"? Or, "if Chrysler is so good, why did I have to buy four in four years"?
My previous Chrysler products were as follows:
2000 JGC - owned for 36K miles over two years and nine months - in the shop a total of 1 day - traded in on a 2002 Durango because I needed a third row seat for my fourth child.
2001 T&C minivan - my wife's car that was owned for 38K miles over two years and two months - in shop three days - traded in for her on a 2004 Ford Excursion (go ahead, make some more snide comments) because my fifth child came and we needed more seats and more room.
2002 Durango - Owned for 18K miles over one year and six months - never in shop once - traded in on '04 Sequoia in 11/03 because I wanted a more pleasurable and quiet ride - the '02 Durango was a bit too "truck-like" for my daily tastes.
POINT: Three Chryslers, 92K miles and six years and five months of total ownership with 4 days total in the shop. I will place that reliabillity record against any Toyota on the road today. Is this normal? Maybe, maybe not. All I can say is, it is my personal experience - like it or don't. Put simply, I would hardly describe any of my Chrylers as a "lemon" - quite the contrary.
2004 Sequoia - owned for 2K miles over two months - not in shop at all - When I bought it, I really liked it and I intended to keep it and not get the Durango. My feelings on the Sequoia are noted above. Only two problems noticed: Ticking/clatter in the sunroof and a mediocre stereo. I would have brought the car in for the sunroof had I kept it. Bottom line: It was a terrific car, but soulless and hardly exciting.
As for the Durango price - no, I did not get 0% financing - I am a cash buyer for all cars. I paid what I paid, and I paid about $1K over invoice for the Sequioa.
As for warranty, perhaps I am missing something, but which car has the longer warranty, Toyota or Dodge?
As for resale: I concede that Toyotas have superior trade-in values as compared to Dodges (or most other cars for that matter). I do not, however, buy cars for the trade-in value. I buy them for their usefulness, comfort, and functionality on a daily basis TODAY, not what a currently-unknown person may pay for it in one, two, or three (or more) years. I certainly understand the value of good trade-in value, and I wish my cars had better trade-in values than they do, but, in my world, that is beside the point - I would prefer a car that I LOVE daily but that costs me a little more in depreciation than a car that is OKAY daily but that costs me less.
That's how I see it. I guess that is why they make different flavor ice cream. Now, go ahead, guys, shoot away. But, this time, how about being polite and mature?
#8022 of 8984 uptight but not clueless
Feb 29, 2004 (12:01 pm)
OK, I'll shoot away.....can't resist on this one.....92K with 4 days in the shop, 3 different vehicles, making up this total with 38K max on one of the three ? Me thinks that was 4 days too much. Give me a break. I wouldn't expect a day in the shop for those initial miles on the Sequoia or any "decent" vehicle fot that matter, let alone 4 days in for 92K on "one" vehicle. Also, for someone who trades in vehicles so frequently, you would be wise to consider trade in value. The premise of your post is absurd. Call me rude, dude.
#8023 of 8984 I'm a Little Uptight
Feb 29, 2004 (12:01 pm)
Cjaubert, some folks here do seem a bit uptight. The lack of many features in the Sequoia that are widely considered standard leaves folks to question the additional money they spent on their Sequoias. The quality comparison’s bandied about on this site with regard to Toyota’s historical quality records compared to many of the other manufacturers’ are indisputable, as is your personal anecdotal experience. Personally, had we not needed the vehicle this year, I would have preferred to wait for Toyota to catch up with the features before buying the truck. I suspect that when Lexus releases a version of the Sequoia it will be spectacular (and spectacularly expensive as well).
My wife and I have had our ’04 Sequoia Limited 4x4 now for just over a month and have put about 1,300 miles on it. Some of your comments in your earlier post (as well as others) have become apparent to me and to a lesser degree to my wife. She is more like the passionate Toyota guys on this site – she criticizes some aspects of the truck personally with me, but would not trade it for anything on the road (except for possibly the next Sequoia that is offered with an in/on dash navigation system). The feel of quality in driving the Sequoia and the perception that this is backed by hard evidence left us no alternative.
Some of the things we have noticed with respect to the Sequoia are:
There is a noticeable difference with the Sequoia in just opening and closing the doors. A brand new Expedition says “bang, small rattle” when closing the doors. The Sequoia just says “poof” no matter how hard you slam any of the doors. I checked this at the Chicago Auto show against a bunch of other SUVs (GMs including Cadillac, the new Durango, even the Armada to a lesser degree). This test means nothing in and of itself, but it gives me a good feeling.
Many have discussed the lack of power with regard to the Sequoia. Ours seems to have plenty of power in comparison to the larger engine equipped Expedition although I have not towed anything yet.
I drove the Sequoia on a 500 mile trip the fifth day we had the truck in the snow with ice covered roads. The traction and stability control worked incredibly well – I was not prepared for how well this truck handled on snow and ice patched highways at 60+ mph. During a week with a similarly equipped Expedition, the stability control system shut off at least once. I had to stop and restart it to correct the problem.
I haven’t noticed rough shifting (cold or warm), or any piston slap whatsoever in driving the Sequoia for the month of February in Chicago (lots of sub-zero mornings).
You cannot lock the Sequoia without all of the doors closed. This is annoying as when getting kids out of the car, I would prefer to open the doors, lock them, then put the keys away while gathering the kids into a pack and closing all of the doors. With the Sequoia, I have to keep the keys available until the whole process is completed.
The lack of seat memory and a fully adjustable passenger seat is annoying. Because the Sequoia is officially my wife’s truck, this has made me almost exclusively a passenger for short trips – I prefer not to adjust the seat and she prefers not to have to adjust it back. Having the memories available makes changing drivers a non-event in our ’96 Volvo.
I’ve recently decided that the flat folding third row is a gift from God (or just about all of the other manufacturers) that I just can’t have. Even with the third row seats tumbled in the Sequoia, they still take up a considerable amount of space. With them in the vehicle and tumbled, the rear cargo area is roughly the same size as the back of my ’96 Volvo 850 (although slightly narrower because of the wheel wells). I was terribly discouraged to discover this when I transferred a crib mattress from the Volvo to the Sequoia and the thing was harder to get into the Sequoia than it was to get into the Volvo.
Has anyone else noticed the sound of the air handling unit in the Sequoia when the blower is higher than the 2 bar setting on the temperature control console? At 3 bars and higher, the sound of air rushing out of the vents interrupts normal conversation. I noticed this in the Expedition as well to a lesser extent. For this reason, my wife doesn’t use the Auto function for the heater. The Volvo’s HVAC is only noticeable at the highest fan speed when defrosting the windshield.
A lot of folks here have complained about the cheap plastic in the interior of the Sequoia. I have not noticed this. In fact, the interior seems to me to be superior to all of the competition including the Escalade (but not the new Cadillac SRX or the Lincolns). My ’04 does not have a noise issue with the sunroof either.
I have not driven all of the other SUVs including the new Durango, but the handling and general driving experience of the Sequoia (not towing) is superior to the Fords and far superior to the base model GMs.
While we have always driven our vehicles until we either towed them to the yard or given them (because they were practically worthless due to miles and age), I suspect that my wife will want to have a new Sequoia when an updated model comes out with all of the modern standard conveniences that the competition offers: flat folding seats, quieter air handler, Nav system, seat and mirror memory, etc.). When and if this happens, we will be pleased with the high retained value of the Sequoia – unless the release of the updated model destroys it.
#8024 of 8984 cjaubert - Enjoyed Your Post
Feb 29, 2004 (2:10 pm)
Thanks for taking the time to provide further details on your Chrysler purchases and the considerations you make on those purchases. I share several, especially resale value.
Initial responses are sometimes, I think, more than just misunderstood. At times they also elicit unfair comments on another maker's products. Different considerations, one as worthy as the next, may sometimes be expressed with a certainty that their own is best. However, it does make for interesting reading and a lively board.
I loved my first car, a new '63 Valiant from Chrysler. Each of my sisters made their first car the companion Dodge Dart, and each was held 17 years. I was once young, so my next car was a ‘65 Plymouth. A bad experience lasting a few years. In the '80's my wife got a LeBaron. Call it okay and the resale terrible. Sold privately for $2,000 after 3-4 years. My '95 Dodge Ram had little trouble and got back 55-60% four year later. That was from the dealer of the next car, but not tied to a purchase price.
I've closely followed Chevy's Tahoe and this board for six months, Nissan’s Armada and Infiniti's QX56 sibling since inception. I'd buy a Tahoe or Sequoia right now if either had a navigation system. Risks associated with a model's first year and the oft reported resonance problem, one that may be inherent in Nissan’s full size SUV design, has put consideration of the latter two aside. If the resonance issue is resolved the next independent company's award will be well deserved.
From what I recall, in '57 Chrysler realized they had a serious design problem. Allegedly a decision was made to wait out the three or so years of the model run. At the time Chrysler was not far behind Ford for number two in sales. It can take awhile for a company’s reliability to deteriorate, but the cause can happen fast.
All told, if the Sequoia comes out with a navigation system (my opinion, Lexus makes the best) I'll probably go with it. Seems to have everything else I want. If the Tahoe offers it and doesn't mess with the firm ride of the Z71 and 4WD (AWD in Denali and Caddy) it will be close. If Durango offers a navigation system it too will be considered.
To find an SUV with the features I want, then prove an enjoyable test ride, take into account consideration of what has been posted, and finally to find a reliable dealer, hopefully nearby and one whom I can make the purchase from is hard enough. If I can do all of that and don't get a lemon I'd want to keep it.
Thank you Edmunds and those who post what could be serious issues for a prospective buyer. And thank you again cjaubert for your thoughts.
Mar 01, 2004 (11:30 am)
Methinks slackers point is right on. If you trade-in so often, then resale must be a factor. Oh I forget, you are a CASH buyer.... Good for you. I did see that you decribed the Sequoia as "... a terrific car, but soulless and hardly exciting". Hmmmm.... What do you expect in a truck ? Exciting will be for sports car and performance sedans. No ?
Oh, you need space for the additions to the family. I don't see how a Durango offers more space than a Sequoia. When it comes to space, no one puts the Durango and the Sequoia in the same sentence when comparing these trucks.
But as someone said already: you bought what fits you and your family best. Good luck and best wishes.
#8026 of 8984 Back for one more attack....A test
Mar 01, 2004 (1:40 pm)
Okay, guys, I have just one question, and I would surely appreciate SERIOUS responses: Is four days in the shop (regardless of which car) over 92K miles and six years and five months of ownership (a) too much time in the shop, (b) about the right time, or a time to be expected, or (c) less time than you would expect?
Quite frankly, putting all disagreement on cars aside, I think that the comment by slackers that, “Me thinks that was 4 days too much. Give me a break. I wouldn't expect a day in the shop for those initial miles on the Sequoia or any "decent" vehicle fot that matter, let alone 4 days in for 92K on "one" vehicle” is a bit optimistic.
I am 46 years old and have probably owned in excess of 20 vehicles in the past 20 years. I cannot imagine ANY car going 92K miles and NEVER being in the shop one day. Maybe I am just unlucky.
Let’s see what you guys think..... I’ll cast the first vote: (c)
#8027 of 8984 Shop time.
Mar 01, 2004 (2:54 pm)
My 92 LS400 has 92k miles and other than a few times in 93 when I mistakenly took the car in for climate control system checks it has NEVER seen the inside of ANY shop.
I put 275k miles on a 1968 Ford country squire with an engine swap at 130k and otherwise the only trouble I remember is having to replace the mechanical fuel pump once or twice.
My 01 AWD RX300 has never been in the shop since the day I bought it. While I will likely not keep it that long, were I to do so I would fully expect that to remain the case until at least 120k.
Oil and filter changes, DIY, is all the service it will get becuase in my opinion service shop's gofers (alias McD flippers) doing routine maintainance cause more problems that they prevent.
Mar 01, 2004 (5:01 pm)
The 92K miles is spread out over 4 cars/minivans, right ? Not that you put in 92K miles on ONE car, correct ? So in total, I'd say (b), cos none of the cars/minivans made it past 50K miles before you got rid of them. Since Chrysler's warranty covers up to 7/70, then you would have had plenty of warranty work you never had to use. Once again, I say good for you. You got what you want, what is the fuss again ? Or is it buyer's remorse already ?
#8029 of 8984 You are not correct, Oac
Mar 01, 2004 (7:55 pm)
The 92K miles is spread out over three cars, for an average per car of 31K miles over two years and two months of use, with 1.33 repair visits. I just don't think that that is too much. To expect better would be, in essence, to expect perfection - the only number below 1 that I can think of is 0. Also, by the way, the cars did not "not make it past 50K miles," I just sold them before they did.
As for the post by wwest, I think my point is made - the number of repair attempts is downplayed by him with comments like "other than a few times" and "once or twice." Well, that's saying "Besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play"? The car was either in the shop or it was not. Either way, I did not suggest, and I do not think, that Chrysler cars are the most reliable on the road. Rather, I am simply saying that my personal experience with repair frequency is hardly one that concerns me, and hardly one that I think the average person would be concerned with.