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SUVs Suzuki Grand Vitara/Vitara Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn Vue
4940 messages, Last post on Sep 24, 2009 at 9:33 AM
You are in the Suzuki Grand Vitara/Vitara Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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There was a sticker on the window of the floor display Santa Fe and Forester. I think it was an EPA air pollution meter, but I could easily be wrong. It showed a line from 1->10, with 1 being cleanest and 10 being dirtiest. I believe it had about 5.4 as "average". The Sube was well lower than average (I think it was like a 3.5 or so) and the Santa Fe was well above average (like a 7.5 or so). Being a closet environmentalist (I almost bought a Jetta TDI for the fuel economy), I went with the significantly cleaner Forester. |
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Interesting, I'll have to check on Monroneys (window stickers) from now on. -juice |
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All- FYI. The Santa FE is a full time four wheel drive vehicle with a 60/40 split. The split never changes. Neither the Tribute nor the Forester can run ALL the time in four wheel drive. The Tribute can run for short durations when in "lock" mode with a 50/50 split but when you exceed 18 Mph it switches back into normal mode "AWD". All all wheel drive systems can induce instabilities into any vehicle. AWD can be a detriment at times. The Explorer is such a vehicle that has caused accidents due to it's AWD system activating at highway speeds and causing the vehicle to either spin out or tumble even while traveling straight. Don't assume you are better with AWD. JVM |
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Gotta love the web: I narrowed down my choice of a mini-SUV to two -- the Trib and the Forester -- just through web research (and a lot of eyeballing). Then when I went for test drives I asked for the internet salesperson, got great, knowledgeable service, and a fair price with relatively little haggle. The Mazda dealer had no stock and said the Escape was getting the parts (e.g. rear discs), so the wait was long and no price breaks. He had one Trib available for a test drive. The handling was overall excellent -- very fun to drive! And I loved the rear-seat room. The interior was somewhat chintzy; my guess is they don't want to undercut the Explorer, as the Escape is almost as wide and roomy, and, best of all, very stylish. So why did I go with a Subaru? One word, no two, no three, sorry five-- quality, reliability, safety, and fuel-efficiency. I'm giving up a 13-year-old, 35mpg, ultra-reliable Toyota Tercel, finally ready for a change after 159K miles. I want ski and backpacking access, great handling, room for 5 in a pinch, a good commuter vehicle, and I *don't* want my truck in the shop. The Forester, a finely-tuned, proven vehicle, handles as well as the Trib, gets much better, more consistent gas mileage, and is safe. I'll be teaching my kids to drive in this vehicle. The clincher was checking out the user boards, which confirmed my fears about the first-year Ford reliability - ugh! Not to mention very inconsistent (and lower) gas mileage. Lately, every time I drive up to the ski resorts (in our minivan), I just can't wait for my new Roo -- five more weeks on a custom order. I treated myself to the 'S', which, compared to my basic Tercel (which doesn't even have a day/night mirror!), will be like driving the Taj Mahal... Regards all, John P.S. I like the way the Forester looks, whereas I love the Tribute's styling. So watch out, Juice, if Ford works out the bugs, I think they'll grab market share from every mini-SUV maker out there. P.P.S. The Mazda/Hyundai dealer also took me for a spin in the Santa Fe. Not bad; I just didn't like it's looks or feel compared to the Trib. |
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Wrong, wrong, wrong. The manual-equipped Forester has a center viscous coupling differential, which allows the full time AWD. Power is split at 50/50 and when one axle slips more than the other, the fluid in the diffy heats up and locks temporarily, ensuring that the power gets to the wheels with grip. It is absolutely full-time. In all gears, all speeds, even in reverse, AWD is active. With that center diffy AWD is not a detriment. With 4WD locked (i.e. no center diffy) you could have binding, like with the Explorer in your example above. But this does not happen in Subarus with the center differential, which can tolerate axles spinning at slightly different speeds. AWD pro: reduced understeer, neutral handling, proactive traction. AWD con: slightly less gas mileage, about 150 lbs weight penalty. The Tribute's system is part-time for slippery surfaces only. That's different. Two other catches: rear drum brakes only, and no limited slip differential on either axle. John: as to market share, I think the Escape and Tribute are mainstream, so they'll steal sales from the Cherokee and Blazer, plus the market itself will expand. Subaru is a niche manufacturer and sales are actually up since the Escape came out. Go figure. I didn't know the Santa Fe's system was full-time, but kudos to Hyundai. It also has rear disc brakes and an optional limited slip differential. -juice |
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| I do not believe the Sante Fe AWD system is full time. It is computer dirven and transfers power only when there is slippage. But I do not believe it is a 60/40 full time split. | |
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I found a couple of reviews on it. Edmunds doesn't give any details at all. New Car Test Drive wrote "details from Hyundai about its full-time four-wheel-drive system are lacking", so they're in the same boat. The Car Connection wrote "The 4WD system has a viscous coupling transfer case", which implies it's similar to Subaru's setup. It's achilles' heel may be the mileage, though. One review said the V6 felt burdened by the AWD system, despite EPA ratings of only 19/23. A Forester S auto gets 22/27. -juice |
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| Is a major factor in my decision to get a Forester over the Santa Fe. | |
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The Sante Fe V6 is taxed by the 4WD system because it is hauling around a portly 3752lbs whereas the Tribute comes in at 3455 lbs, and the Forester comes in at a svelt 3140 lbs. Initially, I thought that Hyundai should put the 3.0L V6 from the XG300 into the Sante Fe. However, the increase is not that much. The 2.7L V6 in the Sante Fe has 181 HP and 177 lb-ft of torque. The 3.0L V6 in the XG300 increases the HP to 192 but it only increases the torque to 178 lb-ft. Torque is where you feel it off the line so it probably wouldn't make a big difference in the Sante Fe. It would be fun to see Subaru put the 3.0L H6 from the Outback into the Forester and stretch it out another 6 inches to allow adults to sit in the back seat. The 212 Hp and 210 lb-ft in the H6 would really make the Forester get up and go!! |
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| The Subaru H6 would be a fine engine in the Forester, just as it is in the Outback. However, that 'get up and go' comes at the princely sum of more than an additional $7,000 over the price of a standard Legacy / Outback H4. Until Subaru gets their more powerful engine prices in line with that of the competition, I'm afraid the H6 will be going nowhere in comparison with the Tribute/Escape's much less expensive and nearly as powerful V6. | |
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