Tires, tires, tires

7006 messages, Last post on Oct 29, 2009 at 11:24 AM

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What is this discussion about? Tires, Wheels, Steering

Edmund's Feature Article: Tire Safety: Don't Ignore the Rubber on the Road

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#31 of 7006 caprirooster by tireguy Apr 24, 2000 (7:51 am)
Let me first give a brief MXV4 history lesson to clear up any confusion at the tire shop. The MXV4 was first produced around 1990 and is now old news. You won't find it in tire stores. The Energy MXV4 was the next generation which incorporated the XSE Technology (utilized a silica compound which offered reduced reduced rolling resistance, better flexibility at low temperatures, etc.). It's still available, but is being replaced by the Energy MXV4 Plus. This is basically the same tire with a slightly different tread pattern which is supposed to be lighter (giving better braking and acceleration) without sacrificing treadwear. Back to the original topic: the MXV4 and the X-one are two substantially different tires made for different applications. The current MXV4 is designed for "Luxury Performance Touring." It is most commonly fitted on import cars with MacPherson Struts, twin cam engines, etc. The X-One (also XSE technology) is also touted by Michelin as being a "Performance Touring Tire," but designed more for domestic cars with less precise suspension. It is heavily siped (fine cuts) for outstanding wet and snow traction. As far as the construction goes, the biggest difference is that in addition to the two steel belts and two nylon plies in the tread, the MXV4 employs a circumfrentially wrapped polyamide belt which helps resist centrifugal force at highway speeds. This is an H rated tire (130mph), as your car requires. It is not a high performance tire like the Pilot, but you will notice the stability advantage even at normal highway speeds. The X-One is available in the 185/60R14, but more common in the 185/65R14. It is a T rated tire (one step below H). Installing this tire would actually downgrade the performance of your car, BUT... that doesn't mean you can go with it. The 96-up Civics actually come with a 185/65R14 with a speed rating of S (even lower). Few--who know what they are talking about--will argue that Michelin makes the quietest, softest riding tires out there. These two models represent that company's greatest efforts in this aspect. The difference being that the MXV4 is designed to provide a cloud-like ride for zippy performance sedans which spend a lot of time at way-up-there speeds, whereas the X-One does the same for domestic sedans at a slight sacrifice of performance. The most obvious difference to the consumer is the milieage warranty. The MXV4 carries a 40,000 mile warranty, with a UTQG just over 300. The X-One has a UTQG of 620. Remember that these numbers mean nothing when comparing different manufacturers' tires, but apply to comparisons within the same company. This basically means Michelin expectes the X-Ones to last twice as long as the MXV4s. Tired of reading yet? I type quickly; I can't help it. Anyway, the mileage warranties are set by the retailer--most set the MXV4 at 40K miles, the X-One at 80K. The X-One originally carried a 6 year unlimited mileage warranty, but I haven't seen that advertised recently. However... The X-Radial Plus, marketed by wholesale dealers (Sam's Club, BJ's, Kostco) still carries the unlimited warranty. Under this warranty, if you can burn up the tires in under 3 years, you get a brand new set for absolutely no charge--as long as the treadwear is even, you've had the rotations documented at reasonable intervals, and they show no signs of neglect or abuse. It's prorated for the remaining 6 years. Final word: MXV4= smooth at very high speeds, better handling, eerily quiet, good rain traction. X-One= smooth at high speeds, good handling, quiet, excellent rain and snow traction. PS- If you feel too much road shock in your steering wheel, try lowering your pressure a few pounds. Note that if you lower it too much the shoulders will wear excessively (especially if you corner like I do). Don't go below 26 psi. Ed12- Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Easy one: go with the MXV4 in the V rating.
#32 of 7006 akashino by tireguy Apr 24, 2000 (8:21 am)
Yes, they do make REALLY light truck P195/7R15 tires. You'll most likely have to special order one. The Michelin LTX M/S is the only tire I know of which is available in this size, but I must say I have never, ever seen one. Your best bet will most likely be to go with an aggressive P205/70R15 M+S tire. This will be the same diameter as a 195/75, but a smidge wider. Or, if you can find a 195 M+S (all-season) which floats your boat, go with it. You don't NEED a truck tire as far as basic functionality is concerned. But if you actually plan to take this thing in the brush, start looking for an LTX--and a winch or a buddy with a CJ-7 Mudding can't be too entertaining with an 800cc engine. I've had cycles with bigger engines that that, man. Jeez. I'm not knocking old Jap SUVs. I learned how to drive in an old Mitsubishi Montero. I must say, aside from girls, there were few things in high school which gave me a kick like driving up the concrete steps leading to the library. The coolest thing about that old rig was the artificial horizon indicator on the dash. Like I didn't know when it was on two wheels! I guess I should expect that from a company who made WWII fighter planes for the Japanese Imperial Fleet.
#33 of 7006 caprirooster, or any conspiracy theorists by tireguy Apr 24, 2000 (9:00 am)
Oh, I forgot to mention-- the X Radial Plus found at Sam's and BJ's is identical to the X-One, but with a different name to hinder price-matching (a corporate conspiracy existing just to make our lives more complicated). It exists mainly to protect the retailer. For example: when business A sells the X-Radial for $95, and business B sells the X-One for $120, business B can tell Joe Unsuspecting that the X-One is actually a better tire, rather than tell Mr. Unsuspecting the truth: B doesn't buy in the quantities A buys, and therefore can't get the same deal from the manufacturer. If the tires wore the same name, Mr. Unsuspecting might have to change his. But, having neglected to do any research of his own, he's reaching for the soap in the prison shower. Most tire companies do this. Continental, Pirelli-Armstrong, Kelly-Springfield... not just Michelin. What's the difference between the $55 Kelly-Springfield Wintermark and the $85 Goodyear Ultra-Grip NHV? Thirty-five bucks and the winged foot on the sidewall; ever hear of paying for the name? It doesn't happen frequently with tires, but it does happen. Just check out the treads when you're suspicious, compare the UTQGs. Don't ignore the obvious. Buyer beware.
#34 of 7006 Tireguy (Suzuki LJ80) by akashino Apr 24, 2000 (3:26 pm)
I'm going after the 205's. I think you're right about getting the aggressive tread. As for mudding, the little thing has a 4 wheel low setup on the transfer case and does a pretty good imitation of a mountain goat from past experience. Helps when the thing is made up of sheet metal and aluminum and weighs next to nothing. Like you and the Montero, I did some silly stuff in it like driving up the stairs of City Hall to get a pic with friends, or stuffing 9 people in it and driving to school during a blizzard. Memories.....
#35 of 7006 MXV4 Energy vs Xradial Plus by heng Apr 25, 2000 (12:52 am)
I've had a couple sets of each on various cars and a mini-van. I couldn't tell the difference between them by driving them. So I'd go for the higher wear rating. By the way, tread wear was more a function of suspension condition than anything. I wore a set of Xplus's out (more than 75% gone at 20K miles) on an older car, while 20K has gone by on a minivan that just crossed 50K and they have 70% left. By the way, mini-vans are very punishing on tires since their sloppy suspensions really grind the front tires (if you push them).
#36 of 7006 caprirooster by tireguy Apr 25, 2000 (2:13 am)
I had suspected your car might have come with the 65s. The 185/60 was a rare OE fitment for the mid 90s Civics. If you go with the MXV4 (I would), and still the handling of a 60 series tire, go with a 195/60R14. The 185 you have on now is a smaller tire and might be contributing to your vibration problem--which intrigues me. It's unusual that you are feeling road vibration with your tires aired down below 30psi. Perhaps the root of your problem is not the road, but vibration caused by misalignment or imbalance. If your front end is not out of whack and the tires are balanced properly, the MXV4s will make you feel as though you're sailing across a glass lake as you cruise down the freeway. I wouldn't recommend the Dunlops. No tire maker goes to the lengths of Michelin to create a tire which offers such a precision ride. Something as small as having one contiunally wrapped nylon cap at a 1 degree angle might create a miniscule shimmy. Michelin has actually gone to the extent of spirally wrapping their polyamide belt at zero degrees to travel (BAZ technology). The only other brand I know of who does this is Pirelli, with their P-Zero (a very high performance tire). But Pirelli does not make a decent tire for this application, so don't allow me to confuse your options even more.
#37 of 7006 minivans by tireguy Apr 25, 2000 (2:30 am)
Yeah, fwd minivans are murder on tires, especially if you don't rotate them. It's funny how brainless some people are. Countless customers have come into my shop to buy two tires for their less than two year old minivan becuase they "must have got a bad batch on the front," they say. Amazing how the front tires are down to the steel but the back tires are like brand new. Granted they never rotated them or checked the pressure after driving 20K miles, but you don't need to do that, right? Tires don't need any maintenance, they're just rubber. Sure. I never understood the point of minivans. Hmm, give me a chassis with all the handling disadvantages of a truck, drop in the same weak V6 my grandmother had in her LeBaron, then wrap it in sheet metal that begs an answer to the age old question "paper or plastic?" I prefer functionality or pleasure, not a weak compromise. I'm counting the days till SUVs are no longer fashionable among those wingtip-wearing lemings who don't even know the difference between all wheel drive and four wheel drive, and I'll actually be able to pick up a new Silverado for less than the cost of a duplex on Center Street. Looks like station wagons are making a comeback. I say bring it on.
#38 of 7006 TireGuy by caprirooster Apr 25, 2000 (4:10 am)
Thanks for your thoughts. I had earlier have someone check on my tires (put the car on the lift and spun the drive wheels at 30mph), it seems that they are out of round. I had went back to NTB and have them price the Michelin's Energy MXV4 Plus but they (NTB) want their technicians to put the tires on the balance machine. That will be done tomorrow. By the way, this car had the frame go out of alignment when it hit a pothole. The frame was fixed, tires (Yokohama's) and OEM steel rims replaced. So coming to to the point of the tires. Thanks for your help... great info and advise!
#39 of 7006 TireGuy by mcgreenx Apr 27, 2000 (9:38 am)
I posted #17 in February and for some reason didn't get back to look for responses until now!! Probably because I don't need new tires yet. You are obviously knowledgeable about tires, but your two responses immediately following my post confused me. You rave about Sam's prices and equipment, but then said you would never take your car there. I am not able (or interested) in mounting my own tires, so I have to take my car somewhere (hey, man, everybody's got to be somewhere), like Just Tires or NTB. Are they all the same, so Sam's is not worse than anywhere else, or would you avoid Sam's and go elsewhere, and, if so, where? I'd like your input, you seem to know what you are talking about.
#40 of 7006 Tire Stores by caprirooster Apr 27, 2000 (1:09 pm)
Does anyone here know of any competent tire stores that can balance tires and determine if the tires are out-of-round and such in the metro Atlanta area besides NTB?? I have been told Butler Tires (Roswell Rd), has anyone had any experience there??