Last post on Nov 09, 2013 at 4:12 PM
You are in the Ford Expedition
What is this discussion about?
Ford Expedition, SUV
Sep 26, 2003 (9:31 am)
I hear where you are coming from. I own an 03 Expy and really debated getting the Sequoia instead. FWIW here are some of my observations:
1) The comparable Expy was roughly $4000 less to purchase. This is based on what it actually would have cost me to buy the vehicle, not MSRP. This was with a rebate of $1000 last October, so now the difference would even be more with the higher incentives.
2) For me at least, with Farmers Insurance, the Sequoia would have been $500 more per year to insure. I plan on keeping the vehicle for roughly 8 years so that would have been $4000 more just for insurance. That puts the overall 8 year tally at $8000 for insurance and purchase price.
3) Eight year depreciation - I have no idea what the vehicles will be worth then. I am certain that the Toyota will be worth more, but $8000? I doubt that.
4) Short term depreciation - if you are not a buy 'em and hold 'em type person I would shy away from the Expedition. The resale right now on my 03 is horrendous. I bought it at invoice minus the rebate. I paid roughly $38K for a $45K vehicle. A trade in right now would be roughly $31K. That is a heck of a drop for one year. Can you imagine if I was dumb enought to pay sticker? Ouch. Based on previous vehicles that I have owned I expect the resale values to start to converge on the two vehicles as time goes on. It is worse in the short term.
So in summary - if this will be a short term vehicle do yourself a favor and don't buy the Ford. If it is more long term I would consider it. I actually liked it just as much as the Sequoia. The fold flat third row is awesome. I decided to take the $8K difference and run. I didn't know how much more the Sequoia would be worth in 8 years so I didn't try to guess. I can always spend $1500-$2000 and get a better extended warranty than the standard Toyota warranty if I have reliability concerns.
Hope this helps at least a little bit.
#1227 of 1710 If you really like it
Sep 26, 2003 (11:46 am)
If you really like it and you need some feature not available on the Sequioa (like the flat folding seat and more usable third row seat), then the Expedition is probably worth it in that situation.
If you are buying only because it was cheaper and you really wanted the Sequoia all along, then 8 years of sacrificing would be hard to handle.
If I were to get one, I would not keep it for only a year or two, but I wouldn't keep it 8 years either. No extended warranty is going cover the vehicle for 8 years.
If I were to get an Expedition, I would probably get a 7 year 100K mile $0 deductible Premiumcare extended warranty and sell the truck to a private party after 5 years or so, using the remaining warranty as a selling point to the new buyer.
I think the best Ford EXP plan (that has full coverage similar to the factory warranty) with 6 or 7 years coverage and 100K miles with zero deductible lists for more like $2500 minus whatever discount you can get and that will wipe out some of the savings over the Toyota. The Toyota is likely to need far fewer repairs, plus it has powertrain coverage for 60 months/60,000 miles included in the price so it would be a much safer bet to skip the extended warranty with the Toyota.
If you keep it for 8 years, I think many more people will be willing to buy an 8 year old out of warranty Toyota than a similar Ford Expedition, so the resale difference might be quite dramatic even after 8 years.
A 1997 Taurus LX sedan in my area in "good" condition with 100,000 miles lists for about $2400 trade-in value and a 1997 Honda Accord LX automatic sedan with the same miles and condition lists for about $5000 trade-in. That is more than double the price. It could be the same situation bewteen an Expedition and Sequioa down the road.
#1228 of 1710 Expedition vs. Sequoia Residuals
Sep 26, 2003 (12:04 pm)
Let's play with numbers, all 2003 base vehicles with no options...
Using Edmund's TMV for Purchase Price
Available Rebates in the Chicago Region
Residual Values based on MSRP from Automotive Lease Guide
Exp. E.B. 4wd: $42,355 MSRP
Purchase $39,105 TMV - $4500 Rebate = $34,605
Residual Value: 24mo. $20,754 (49%); 36mo. $17,789(42%); 48mo. $15,248(36%); 60mo. $13,130 (31%)
Sequoia Lim. 4wd: $44,730 MSRP
Purchase $40,265 TMV - $750 Factory to Dealer Incentive = $39,515
Residual Value: 24mo. $25496 (57%); 36mo. $21,470 (48%); 48mo. $19,234 (43%); 60mo. $16,997 (38%)
In this example, the original purchase prices differed by $4910. At no time during the 5 year ownership did the value of the Sequoia Limited exceed that of the Expedition Eddie Bauer by more than the original difference.
What does this prove? You draw your own conclusions. In my opinion, it does lead a person to conclude that the higher residual value of the Sequoia will never make up for the original difference in purchase price based on the current large Expedition rebate.
What does this mean to you? Buy the vehicle that gives you the most enjoyment, that fits your needs best, and stop worrying that you'll "take it in the shorts" when it comes time to sell it if you decide on the Expedition.
#1229 of 1710 Purchasing used 2003 with money owed on it
Sep 26, 2003 (2:32 pm)
We want to purchase a used 2003 Ford Expedition with cash. However the seller owes money on it to the bank. How can we transfer title from the bank to us? We do not want to trust giving money to the seller, and if we give money to the bank, the bank will sign the title over to the seller.
#1230 of 1710 Paperwork
Sep 26, 2003 (2:44 pm)
There is paperwork the seller signs transfering liability to you and a bill of sale you can give to the bank with the money so the title will go to you. Call the bank. You will need to verify the payoff amount anyway.
You might be able to give all the money to the bank and they will credit the excess back to the seller or you can write one check for just the payoff and one check to the seller if he is selling for more than the payoff.
Call the bank and ask them what paperwork is required, then send it to them.
You might be able to go with the seller to a car dealership that can handle the sale for a fee.
#1231 of 1710 Old Tree vs. Adventure (Sequi vs. XP)
Sep 26, 2003 (5:42 pm)
Let's realize something gang. If you intend to make this a short-term ownership don't buy ANY vehicle or you'll lose your a**. If short-term, maybe a lease is better as at least you know exactly how much money you're throwing away up front.
It all comes down to what you enjoy; either thinking about what your ride might be worth when you're tired of it compared to the other model, or not having to worry because you enjoy it and it works well for a long time. Both vehicles meet that criteria depending on your school of thought as explained so well above.
I considered the Toyota, Ford (and Chevy too - old school). There was no comparison for me. I couldn't justify some probable future trade-in savings with a $5-8K additional expense up front. Besides, I felt cramped in the back, hated the 3rd row seats, and thought the engine was peppy but not earthy like the XP 5.4. I want room, flexibility, innovation, and safety, all XP fortes. The way I feel is the Sequi feels like a tennis shoe and the XP like slippers. Couple that with the incentives and other new tech features, and it was not hard to choice at all.
As far as '05 goes I think it'll take more than 300HP to push 6,000 pounds of Expedition around and make it feel sporty, 500HP might do the job, 6 MPG sound good? Once again, IMHO it's a compromise between utility, economy, durability, cost to manufacture, and fun to drive. I feel it's a complement to the Expedition that Nissan felt copied it and called it the Armada. Face it, Ford got it right!
#1232 of 1710 Using Audio with Rear Seat DVD
Sep 27, 2003 (8:16 am)
SIGGIE1 had a question a few weeks ago on getting CD or FM audio to work for front seat passengers while rear seat passengers watch a DVD with headphones.
The first time you use the "Dual Play" mode, I believe the Rear Seat defaults to AM, so:
1: If the Vehicle is in "Single Play" DVD and the driver pushes the "Headphone" button, the Front Seat stays in DVD and the Rear Seat goes to AM. This could be verified if you plug in headphones to confirm what audio channel is being routed to the Rear Seat. If the Front Seat were to then move away from DVD (say to CD), the DVD shuts off because it thinks no one wants to watch it (e.g. Front Seat wants CD and Rear Seat wants AM)
2: If you find that the Rear Seat IS in AM (or any other NON DVD mode), you should press the Mode button on the Rear Seat until you hear DVD audio in the headphones and the Radio Display says either "DVD Shared" or "RSC DVD".
3: Once the Rear Seat has selected DVD, the front seat can move away from DVD mode and the movie will continue playing.
This works for the factory-installed Expedition DVD system -- not sure about dealer-installed versions.
Sep 27, 2003 (5:44 pm)
I'm sorry folks, but depreciation aside, I just don't see the beauty in the Sequoia, and I honestly don't feel the Sequoia's engine is quieter or stronger. I clearly acknowledge Toyota's rep for dependability, but I still have to like the truck each morning as I get into it. Your mileage may vary.....
#1234 of 1710 Siggie - DVD Question
Sep 28, 2003 (9:38 am)
I just bought a '03 Expy last week and had the opportunity to use the DVD player for the first time yesterday.
I'm not sure I have the most efficient method figured out, but after several trial and error trys, what works for me is - Start the DVD, press the 2 and 4 memory buttons on the radio at the same time to place system in Dual Mode (both headphones and speakers are playing DVD audio), Select AM/FM for radio or CD to play CD (DVD audio remains in the headphones).
After shutting off the truck, I have to go through this sequence each time I start the truck, even though I didn't touch any system buttons prior to shutting it off. Hope this helps.
#1235 of 1710 nvbanker
Sep 28, 2003 (11:15 am)
I'm with you on this one, but one would expect that since we bought the Expy over the Sequoia. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Sequoia a lot, I just didn't think it was vastly superior to the Expy, if at all. I looked at them as being different, but basically interchangeable. Then the guaranteed money spoke.