Last post on Sep 24, 2012 at 7:42 PM
You are in the Ford Expedition
What is this discussion about?
Ford Expedition, SUV
#1222 of 1707 Expedition Too Noisy
Sep 25, 2003 (6:08 pm)
It seems to be the engine that's the problem. It feels powerful at parking lot speeds to the point almost being jumpy, but once you are moving at road speeds and want to accelerate, there isn't enough reserve power, so you have to floor it and get a bunch of engine noise at that point. It is too bad that such a big Ford engine doesn't put out the power like the big Chevy Vortecs and Toyota's smaller V8.
A Navigator with 300HP might be better, but the styling is over the top and it's too pricey.
Maybe by 2005 the Expedition will have a more powerful engine (like the current Navigator) that can move the Expedition around with less effort which would result in less engine noise as a side benefit.
Sep 26, 2003 (6:01 am)
The 05 Expy will have the new (F150) 300hp 5.4l 3 valve engine. It was supposed to be late availability in the '04s but apparently capacity can't supply the F150 and Expy at the same time
#1224 of 1707 05 sounds good if that's true
Sep 26, 2003 (8:49 am)
As long as the 300HP engine is not noiser and there is no significant increase in price. It might be quieter in real world use simply because it won't need to be pushed as hard.
The Expedition is not as nice as a Sequioa, (except that the third row seat is usuable for adults in the Expedition)but the price is so much cheaper (after you figure in bigger discounts and rebates on top of that).
I wonder if the Expedition still works out cheaper in the long run after you factor in the cost of a $0 deductable Ford Premium Care extended warranty as a hedge against expected repair problems after 36K miles and if you consider the added depreciation cost of an Expedition as and expense?
For a lease, it would probably be cheaper to go with a Sequioa because of higher residuals, so I assume it might cost you less to go with the Toyota if you purchased and then sold or traded it in 5 years later with 75K miles or so on the odometer.
Has anyone compared the ownership costs over 5 years of and Exp. XLT vs a Sequioa SR5 (or Eddie Bauer vs Sequioa Limited)?
The Expedition will cost thousands less to purchase, but will be worth thosands less at resale and you may need to spend at least a couple thousand on repairs or prepay the repairs with an extended warranty. Ford depreciation is so massive that it can wipe out everything you saved up front plus more.
#1225 of 1707 XM/Directv Mobile entertianment center
Sep 26, 2003 (9:23 am)
Vehicles like the Expedition are good for long trips with 4 or more people and their luggage or even carpooling with up to 8.
I'm wondering if many people would be interested if Ford offered XM radio and Directv availability in a couple years.
Directv is available on planes now:
I'm sure the equipment is too expensive for personal vehicles now, but maybe the price will drop in a few years especially if it were sold mass market.
It will be really nice to be able to watch HBO, a football game or maybe a PPV movie on a long trip instead of only DVDs.
Even commuting in traffic, you would be able to have passengers watch live TV from the flip down screen.
Maybe they could even offer high speed internet access via the same satellite connection.
Sep 26, 2003 (10:31 am)
I hear where you are coming from. I own an 03 Expy and really debated getting the Sequoia instead. FWIW here are some of my observations:
1) The comparable Expy was roughly $4000 less to purchase. This is based on what it actually would have cost me to buy the vehicle, not MSRP. This was with a rebate of $1000 last October, so now the difference would even be more with the higher incentives.
2) For me at least, with Farmers Insurance, the Sequoia would have been $500 more per year to insure. I plan on keeping the vehicle for roughly 8 years so that would have been $4000 more just for insurance. That puts the overall 8 year tally at $8000 for insurance and purchase price.
3) Eight year depreciation - I have no idea what the vehicles will be worth then. I am certain that the Toyota will be worth more, but $8000? I doubt that.
4) Short term depreciation - if you are not a buy 'em and hold 'em type person I would shy away from the Expedition. The resale right now on my 03 is horrendous. I bought it at invoice minus the rebate. I paid roughly $38K for a $45K vehicle. A trade in right now would be roughly $31K. That is a heck of a drop for one year. Can you imagine if I was dumb enought to pay sticker? Ouch. Based on previous vehicles that I have owned I expect the resale values to start to converge on the two vehicles as time goes on. It is worse in the short term.
So in summary - if this will be a short term vehicle do yourself a favor and don't buy the Ford. If it is more long term I would consider it. I actually liked it just as much as the Sequoia. The fold flat third row is awesome. I decided to take the $8K difference and run. I didn't know how much more the Sequoia would be worth in 8 years so I didn't try to guess. I can always spend $1500-$2000 and get a better extended warranty than the standard Toyota warranty if I have reliability concerns.
Hope this helps at least a little bit.
#1227 of 1707 If you really like it
Sep 26, 2003 (12:46 pm)
If you really like it and you need some feature not available on the Sequioa (like the flat folding seat and more usable third row seat), then the Expedition is probably worth it in that situation.
If you are buying only because it was cheaper and you really wanted the Sequoia all along, then 8 years of sacrificing would be hard to handle.
If I were to get one, I would not keep it for only a year or two, but I wouldn't keep it 8 years either. No extended warranty is going cover the vehicle for 8 years.
If I were to get an Expedition, I would probably get a 7 year 100K mile $0 deductible Premiumcare extended warranty and sell the truck to a private party after 5 years or so, using the remaining warranty as a selling point to the new buyer.
I think the best Ford EXP plan (that has full coverage similar to the factory warranty) with 6 or 7 years coverage and 100K miles with zero deductible lists for more like $2500 minus whatever discount you can get and that will wipe out some of the savings over the Toyota. The Toyota is likely to need far fewer repairs, plus it has powertrain coverage for 60 months/60,000 miles included in the price so it would be a much safer bet to skip the extended warranty with the Toyota.
If you keep it for 8 years, I think many more people will be willing to buy an 8 year old out of warranty Toyota than a similar Ford Expedition, so the resale difference might be quite dramatic even after 8 years.
A 1997 Taurus LX sedan in my area in "good" condition with 100,000 miles lists for about $2400 trade-in value and a 1997 Honda Accord LX automatic sedan with the same miles and condition lists for about $5000 trade-in. That is more than double the price. It could be the same situation bewteen an Expedition and Sequioa down the road.
#1228 of 1707 Expedition vs. Sequoia Residuals
Sep 26, 2003 (1:04 pm)
Let's play with numbers, all 2003 base vehicles with no options...
Using Edmund's TMV for Purchase Price
Available Rebates in the Chicago Region
Residual Values based on MSRP from Automotive Lease Guide
Exp. E.B. 4wd: $42,355 MSRP
Purchase $39,105 TMV - $4500 Rebate = $34,605
Residual Value: 24mo. $20,754 (49%); 36mo. $17,789(42%); 48mo. $15,248(36%); 60mo. $13,130 (31%)
Sequoia Lim. 4wd: $44,730 MSRP
Purchase $40,265 TMV - $750 Factory to Dealer Incentive = $39,515
Residual Value: 24mo. $25496 (57%); 36mo. $21,470 (48%); 48mo. $19,234 (43%); 60mo. $16,997 (38%)
In this example, the original purchase prices differed by $4910. At no time during the 5 year ownership did the value of the Sequoia Limited exceed that of the Expedition Eddie Bauer by more than the original difference.
What does this prove? You draw your own conclusions. In my opinion, it does lead a person to conclude that the higher residual value of the Sequoia will never make up for the original difference in purchase price based on the current large Expedition rebate.
What does this mean to you? Buy the vehicle that gives you the most enjoyment, that fits your needs best, and stop worrying that you'll "take it in the shorts" when it comes time to sell it if you decide on the Expedition.
#1229 of 1707 Purchasing used 2003 with money owed on it
Sep 26, 2003 (3:32 pm)
We want to purchase a used 2003 Ford Expedition with cash. However the seller owes money on it to the bank. How can we transfer title from the bank to us? We do not want to trust giving money to the seller, and if we give money to the bank, the bank will sign the title over to the seller.
#1230 of 1707 Paperwork
Sep 26, 2003 (3:44 pm)
There is paperwork the seller signs transfering liability to you and a bill of sale you can give to the bank with the money so the title will go to you. Call the bank. You will need to verify the payoff amount anyway.
You might be able to give all the money to the bank and they will credit the excess back to the seller or you can write one check for just the payoff and one check to the seller if he is selling for more than the payoff.
Call the bank and ask them what paperwork is required, then send it to them.
You might be able to go with the seller to a car dealership that can handle the sale for a fee.
#1231 of 1707 Old Tree vs. Adventure (Sequi vs. XP)
Sep 26, 2003 (6:42 pm)
Let's realize something gang. If you intend to make this a short-term ownership don't buy ANY vehicle or you'll lose your a**. If short-term, maybe a lease is better as at least you know exactly how much money you're throwing away up front.
It all comes down to what you enjoy; either thinking about what your ride might be worth when you're tired of it compared to the other model, or not having to worry because you enjoy it and it works well for a long time. Both vehicles meet that criteria depending on your school of thought as explained so well above.
I considered the Toyota, Ford (and Chevy too - old school). There was no comparison for me. I couldn't justify some probable future trade-in savings with a $5-8K additional expense up front. Besides, I felt cramped in the back, hated the 3rd row seats, and thought the engine was peppy but not earthy like the XP 5.4. I want room, flexibility, innovation, and safety, all XP fortes. The way I feel is the Sequi feels like a tennis shoe and the XP like slippers. Couple that with the incentives and other new tech features, and it was not hard to choice at all.
As far as '05 goes I think it'll take more than 300HP to push 6,000 pounds of Expedition around and make it feel sporty, 500HP might do the job, 6 MPG sound good? Once again, IMHO it's a compromise between utility, economy, durability, cost to manufacture, and fun to drive. I feel it's a complement to the Expedition that Nissan felt copied it and called it the Armada. Face it, Ford got it right!