Last post on Jul 06, 2013 at 3:20 AM
You are in the Toyota 4Runner
What is this discussion about?
Toyota 4Runner, SUV
#2893 of 11429 Ditto, World Traveler. . .
Sep 22, 2002 (4:29 am)
Well put world traveler. When someone scans and posts the same photos from the mags they purchased or a screen shot from the AutoWeek show they recorded (without intent to profit), is Toyota gonna run in here and cry copyright violation? Who is going to distinguish between links of that nature and the spyshots from these "scofflaws" like Corey? :\ [No one I presume; all would seem to be banned.] These "dag naggity" lawyers should go back to law school!
And Toyota should know that we will be the same people (been reading this board since late 1999 . . .) on this board characterizing Toyota and the 4Runner long after the embargo is over, when the masses rush to Edmunds to see what the fuss over 4Runner is and whether it is worth that high price - are they stupid enough to target the few that are here now? Do they really think that restraining us until they can get their slick ad campaign out (complete with body-hiding water fall images) is going to prevent honest discussion of a major plasticidis SCREW-UP on the SR5s and Sports. Duh!
I had some price issues with the H2 yesterday, so I too am having to consider what had always been my second choice in a Pathfinder. I can't believe that the only solution if I want the increased HP I've waited 3 years for is to come up with $39,000 for the Limited . . . maybe I will find the 3rd Gen Sport with TRD supercharger on sale for ~ $30K; now that would be great! [I'll let you know what I find in the next couple weeks . . .]
#2894 of 11429 EMBARGO?
Sep 22, 2002 (6:15 am)
It's to late, those pic's are all over the internet. The launch of the car is just a couple weeks away.
I guess if people want to share they can just post a link to the "home" page of the web site and let people find the pic's themselves. Better yet just include the web site URL in there post.
You cant stop the internet. Yeah baby!
Sep 22, 2002 (6:48 am)
falls prey to Toyota pressure, it will set a very bad precedent for the future. Regardless of how the posters recieved those images, it's not up to Edmunds (or any other site), to play—or be pressured into playing—policeman.
If Edmunds gives in, these images, as well as any future "spy" images from other brands, will show up on the Internet, somewhere. There's no way to stop it. If Edmunds sets a policy of no longer allowing these types of images, what will happen is that people will visit these other sites, and will no longer visit Edmunds. Don't do it Edmunds...
#2896 of 11429 I see two issues here...
Sep 22, 2002 (7:15 am)
1) How those images were obtained in the first place, is an issue between Toyota and the site provider, who *originally* posted the copyrighted images. If they were illegally obtained, then that's a valid issue that Toyota should pursue.
2) Even so, regardless of how those images were obtained, legally or not, once they become public, it becomes impossible to control the distribution. Now you're getting into areas of free speech, which then becomes a constitutional issue.
I'm not a lawyer, so those with legal minds might shoot my theories down. Even so, I think it's a slippery slope Edmunds is on. They (Toyota) could win the battle, but Edmunds could lose the war...
#2897 of 11429 Picture Embargo and Related Issues
Sep 22, 2002 (7:38 am)
The issues with Edmunds aside. and they are valid ones. The greater issue is what sort of Company is Toyota becoming. We have all seen postings about sales and service issues with various dealers. There are some good ones (dealers), but they tend to be the exceptions, and we have not laid this at Toyota's doorstep. Now we encounter this up tight attitude, and enthusiast take the hind-most, from the parent company. An example of the opposite tack is VW releasing a huge amount of material on the Touareg, which is not due in the US market until next June. The 4Runner has not been high on my want list, and the styling (?)of the new one puts it further off. It just annoys me to have a big corporation throwing it's wt. around. In my view, all Toyota has going for it, right now, is build quality, and that seems to be slipping, if you read some of the other forums. This may all be the actions of the lawyers, associated with Toyota-US, in which case they will get what they deserve; a loss of good will!
#2898 of 11429 A little more
Sep 22, 2002 (8:22 am)
Toyota has a training site for its dealers. In order to access it, you must be a "registered" salesman so it wouldn't do any good for me to give y'all the URL. I went to it last night and the format seems specifically set up to prevent any cut and paste jobs either.
There really isn't too much content yet but there are promises of more information to follow. I did find out a few interesting tid-bits.
1. The 4WD system on the V8 will have a torsen center differential with a 40/60 front to rear bias in normal conditions. When slip is detected, that can change to as much as 78% (I think) rear and 60% front.
2. The V8 will be a full time system and the V6 will be selectable, presumably the same A-Trac system we currently have.
3. Head room, leg room, hip and shoulder room are all increased which probably explains the reduced cargo room.
4. The back seat will fold completely flush without removing the headrests. When this is done, you will have 70" of length between the back to the front seats.
5. There will be "cargo area backup mirrors" which seem to be mirrors mounted in the rear pillars to allow you to see around corners when backing out of a parking space. I like this one.
BTW, after viewing the site, they give a quiz. Scores over 80% qualify for "fabulous prizes" which normally means a t-shirt. I scored 100%--thank you very much.
#2899 of 11429 Reasons for secrecy
Sep 22, 2002 (10:10 am)
The reason Toyota is being so tight lipped on the 2003 is because there are still 2002 models on the lots. They don't want to hurt our ability to sell the current model while we still have them.
This was not the case with the introduction of the Sienna. The Previa had ended production many months before the Sienna's arrival and due to this, we had a ton of advance material on the Sienna. The same held true for the Tundra. The same was not true for the 2002 Camry, nor the 2003 Corolla. That is because those models competed directly with cars on our lots.
The new VW does not compete with anything VW currently sells. This is normal industry practice. It is an effort to protect the dealers from loosing business. Remember, Toyota does not sell cars to consumers. They sell everything they build to its dealers.
I know this doesn't make it any easier for those who read the TH, but it does explain their behavior. The Internet is still not the primary place consumers look for information. It is still the dealer's inventory.
Sep 22, 2002 (10:42 am)
the new VW could be an overpriced pig that no-one will buy, so they have to spend a LOT of time ahead making sure people at least want to come look at it.
There are still a bunch of '02s around, so I can see why Toyota does not want to make big splashy display of how much more power and amenities the '03 has, that will be available in 3 weeks.
I just saw the Motorweek piece and was disappointed. It was a two-minute fluff piece. It only featured the Limited V-8, which is probably all that will be available in CA for the next few months anyway, so all you people looking to buy the '03 immediately ought to begin to cool your heels!
#2901 of 11429 re:Reasons for secrecy by cliffy1
Sep 22, 2002 (11:17 am)
I guess that all makes some sense. BTW cliffy is one of the exceptions I spoke about. He's one of the "good guys", and a valuable source of info on this board.
#2902 of 11429 Thoughts on pictures & Toyota
Sep 22, 2002 (11:20 am)
>Even so, regardless of how those images were
>obtained, legally or not, once they become
>public, it becomes impossible to control the
>distribution. Now you're getting into areas of
>free speech, which then becomes a constitutional
That's just it, they aren't public. They are the copyrighted material of Toyota. Free speech doesn't permit you to re-distribute copyrighted material. Every company has the right to protect its property.
>The greater issue is what sort of Company is
A very good one, making excellent, safe, quality vehicles. They have grown to be #4 in the US and #3 worldwide. Their market share continues to grow because they are good at what they do. They have raised the quality bar for all manufacturers by challenging them to build better and safer vehicles.
>In my view, all Toyota has going for it,
>right now, is build quality, and that
>seems to be slipping
Toyota is the leader of the J.D. Power awards for quality. No other company has taken as many awards. Toyota is the benchmark for quality in the auto industry.
Toyota is not a bully in this. Individuals that were supposed to be trustworthy broke an agreement with Toyota, and published copyrighted materials without permission. Toyota is just asking those people to stop. I don't see where there is any bullying involved. All they want is for these people to stop breaking the agreement. Why is that a problem? Why does that make them the bad guy?