Last post on Nov 02, 2006 at 6:19 AM
You are in the Subaru Forester
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Forester, Wagon
Jul 02, 2001 (8:29 am)
The window track can be adjusted. Water should not be leaking in like that. Even with a 1300psi pressure washer mine never leak. Ask them to look again or try a more knowledgeable dealership.
tex: try it out - the rear headrests can be leaned forward (1998-2000 Foresters). They are interchangeable with the fronts, which do not tilt forward.
Resale is indeed very good. I paid $19,200 back in 1998, and they're selling for around $15k. That's 78% of the original price I paid, remarkable IMO. Go price a used Cherokee and see if it held its value as well (fat chance).
I disagree with the "so-so" quality compared to Jeep's unknown quality. Forester has proven itself with total quality awards from Strategic Visions, a top three finish with JD Power, and better than average long-term scores with Consumer Reports.
The Liberty is new, but look at the Grand Cherokee, Jeep's previous new product, and quality was dismal. The V6 for the Liberty is based on that engine family, and Jeep has had poor scores for years and years.
IIRC Consumer Reports had them at the bottom as a group, while Subaru was 7th best behind Honda, Toyota, and Nissan (plus their 3 luxury name plates).
Night and day. Very good, proven long-term quality vs. unknown but historically awful quality.
Don't get me wrong - I like the Liberty a lot, and Jeeps are about as fun as you can get. Let's just not lose sight of the facts. I don't like that you can't get full-time 4WD with a manual tranny and the V6, and ABS isn't standard even on the top-of-the-line Limited model. I hate the way they package them, basically.
Jul 02, 2001 (8:47 am)
Jeep's packaging leaves a lot to be desired. Everything juice said about the "content" (or lack-there-of), I agree with.
I do think the Liberty is going to go a long way in terms of changing Jeep's reliability reputation. It's a clean-sheet design, and computer-designed from the get-go, with a new super high-tech factoryŚnone of which any previous Jeep model had access to.
I'm not saying there won't be any teething problems. But I suspect there will be few, and easily fixed.
#1880 of 18028 I would bet otherwise...
Jul 02, 2001 (9:07 am)
I'd bet Liberty will be plagued with problems, and will make many loyal Jeep owner to scream for return of Cherokee. Not that Cherokee was totally trouble-free, but it was better than Grand Cherokee, reliability-wise.
Jul 02, 2001 (10:02 am)
should continue this discussion in about 2 - 3 years, and see who was right.
#1882 of 18028 decisions, decisions....
Jul 02, 2001 (10:05 am)
Michael-- Yes, that's exactly what I don't like about the monotone scheme. I wish the sunroof and side air bags were an option for the base S. It would make this decision a lot easier.
Kate-- Thanx much for your description of the differences in the '01 and the '02 silver colors. I originally thought that the platinum was a little darker shade of silver but I guess I'm wrong.
juice-- Your point about the Forester retaining its value is well taken --thank you. The research I've done so far is that the Forester will have a little higher resale than an OB but I don't know by how much. Also your advice over on the OB board is right on... I guess I can always "upgrade" to an OB later if I find the Forester no longer meets my needs :>
Well folks, I guess I'm now leaning a little more towards the Forester than the OB but still a little leary as to the "deal" I'm getting. I'm hearing that Foresters in some parts of the country are selling for below invoice as well as OB's. Maybe a little more haggling is in order. *ugh* I despise that, lol. Thank you all for yor feedback ...back to more number crunching.
Oh, can I get anyone to comment on this: the dealer that I've given a deposit is quoting me an installed price for the "performance gauge pack" of $850. That's really pricy compared with an aftermarket set-up that I've seen over on i-club which the WRX owners are installing but I don't know if I want to hassle with after-market installations. Yes, the Subaru gauge pack looks cheap but it is covered under the b2b warranty and if it functions properly then that's all I want. Other dealers are quoting up to $1,200 for the same installation. Is there anyone here that has had the OEM gauge pack installed?
Also, any comments on the retained value of after-market leather?
Jul 02, 2001 (10:15 am)
I would say $175 over for an S+ is a very good price, just be sure the invoice doesn't have the freight double counted or something like that.
Here in the Massachusetts the pricing seems to be about invoice for an L, about $100 to $200 over for an S, and about $300 to $400 over for an S+.
#1884 of 18028 I second that $175 over invoice is a very good deal
Jul 02, 2001 (10:22 am)
$175 over invoice is a very good deal provided invoice is just that: an invoice, with no padded charges.
Scirrocco: depending on the lighting, Platinum may look a bit darker because it's more greyish as opposed to slightly yellowish hue in Silverthorne. On the sun, it sparks more than Silverthorne, and looks more upscale, IMO.
Jul 02, 2001 (11:12 am)
Bob: I hope so. My dad's earlier experience with Jeeps has him soured, so I doubt he'd try one. That would be a shame if the Liberty does turn things around for Jeep.
They're not for me, though. I just don't like trucks, even the ones that try to be car-like.
The price for the gauges is (IMHO) high. I'd spend my $850 on a Borla cat-back, an UR pulley, and an Amsoil air filter, a 18mm rear sway bar, and a front strut tower brace. You'd still have some change, even.
#1886 of 18028 Tires
Jul 02, 2001 (3:35 pm)
I own a 1998 Forester L which has not had any problems. However my tires are in need of replacement. The original set only has 29,000 miles on them. I am wondering what other people have put on their Foresters when replacing the original tires. I am also wondering whether I should go with regular passenger car tires or ones specifically for light truck/SUVs. If I went with SUV tires I would want ones which were made mostly for on-road or highway driving. I would appreciate any opinions. Thanks
#1887 of 18028 Re: Tires
Jul 02, 2001 (5:30 pm)
I have an '01 L and just recently (very recently) upgraded to 16" rims and 215x60 tires.
For tires, I went with Yokohama Avid T4's. These are very comfortable "touring" tires - much better grip/handling than the high profile (70 series Duelers) but with very smooth and quiet ride. My goal for upgrading was to reduce noise and improve handling. The Avids and larger rim did this for me.
Light truck tires will give you better snow traction, but not necessarily better wet weather traction. I find the oem Duelers to be very prone to hydroplaning. They are (supposedly!) built a little stronger for off-road use. Light truck tires will also generally be noisier on the highway and even noticeable at low speed. The one thing I noticed with the new tires when slowing to a stop is how silent they are, the Duelers produced lots of road noise.
Passenger car tires will give a smoother ride, be quieter, and generally wear longer than LTs. One thing to ensure is that any replacement tire should meet the oem load and speed rating (95 and 'S' for Forester L). Snow traction is reduced, but you have to balance that against (1) how much snow you have to deal with and (2) the fact that AWD with decent all-season tires is probably enough for normal snow conditions.
If you haven't already done so, checkout www.tirerack.com for tire surveys and generally good information about tires.