Last post on Sep 25, 2013 at 9:19 AM
You are in the Lincoln Navigator
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln Navigator, SUV
#1112 of 1637 Re: [heyjewel]
Jul 23, 2004 (11:53 am)
I hate to see you filled with this much vitriol, George. As you stated, you like your Lincolns, but don't like this design flaw, nor the lack of concern expressed by the builders. Don't blame you. Let me tell you how I deal with these things.
Recognizing first of all, that I vote with my wallet, as do we all ultimately - I will have the last word, and my revenge. Example: I have been a Town Car fan for years. That is, up to 1998, when the new design came out. I noticed when they redid - (undid, IMO) the interior of the Town Car, they forgot to include a blower for the A/C. It has the most anemic excuse for a blower I've ever seen! The HVAC gal/guy for this car must have been from Sweden or something, because a normal strength in a Ford product, is a very healthy hurricane blower. This one is not only weak, but still noisy as well! In the two climates where I have a home, this will just not do.
So, the Town Car has been off my list of potential sedans now for a while. I hear they know this is an issue, but the fix isn't cheap, and they will likely address it in the next makeover. If they do, it may get another look. Meanwhile, I check from time to time to see if they have this problem still. They do. I always check out the HVAC first in any prospective car I'm going to buy. Your problem would be hard to spot without a thorough test drive, but that's another reason I'm in Lincolns, my dealer lets me take cars home overnight until I find the one I want, so I can spot some potential design issues that I'm not going to be ok with. Meanwhile, this Navigator has the best and coldest A/C I think I've ever had, and I love it. It's my "hot" button, if you know what I mean. No point at getting steamed at headquarters, because Mercedes is the same, as is Toyota, as is GM. Frankly, Ford has been the most responsive to my complaints over the years, pathetic as they are......
The best way to make your point, is not to buy next time, if the problem persists. Some design flaws however, just can't be fixed. Hence, when they say, "it's normal", that translates to me as "we have no friggin clue how to fix this"........
Jul 23, 2004 (3:27 pm)
Now you mention the A/C blower (something I've had to explain to other people)... Because of the newer "temperature control systems", might make use of a heating element, even if it's supposedly cooling... As in, you might set your A/C temp at 75 degrees, it REACHED it, but you might feel that the blower is blowing at the same speed, YET the cooling of the air is NOT as it was prior to it reaching the desired 75 degree mark. What happens, is heating element is introduced into the cooling air exhaust, to reach 75.
In most systems (to defeat it)...Just turn the A/C temp to the colest setting (usually 60 degrees) and just alter the blower speed. What this does is blow VERY cold air, but keep blowing.
One friends Saturn L300, this is quite evident. When it reaches it's set Auto Temp, it'll mix heated air, into cooling air, to keep it at 75 degrees, BUT keep the blower at the same speed. SO when I need a quick cool-down, I turn it to 60, take it off the "Auto" mode, and just alter the blower speed. Yes I find it annoying to do as well... You would think "automoatic" ment just that.
Also, there's numerous systems where on it's highest blower speed, it's not shooting out the coldest air, and you be better off placing it on the 2nd fastest blower setting, than full all-out speed.
Many who had Ford's in the late 90's might notice that, Place it on MAX A/C (recirculates, saves gas, cools faster) and maybe speed 3 (out of 4) and it'll cool a bit quicker.
As for complains, write a letter to customer service...CC: to All those your able to, and describe WHY you have chosen another brand/make, over a particular one. This helps them have an idea what needs to be improved. I think it's a positive way to vent...I've been "venting" with VW/Audi for years, they still haven't improved their quality/reliability...OK sometimes no one is listening....
Jul 23, 2004 (3:48 pm)
There clearly is a difference between the unit in my 99 Navigator, and the HVAC in my 03. Both were supremely cold, even when it's 111 degrees like today. The difference was, the 99 would just throttle back the fan speed to pretty much nothing when the cabin got to the desired temp. The 03 does what you just described. Either is ok, it just took a little getting used to in the 03. Both of them blew like a typhoon, which is wonderful!
Now, the Town Car just has no air volume. It's the only Ford product I've even seen with this problem. One of the main reasons I like Fords is the factory air is second to none usually. But not in the T/C. Hell, even the Volvo has great air, and they don't even know why in Sweden where they're made!!
Jul 23, 2004 (3:52 pm)
Heh, yes you are correct. Each Ford I've had has always had supremely cold air, and they are quick to cool as well. I know some with 80's Mustangs, Cougars, Tbirds, that have the original A/C system still working without any issues...Amazing.
Volvo's A/C systems have improved.. GEE wonder why heh...MB/BMW still lag in the industry.
TC does have a subpar A/C system. The Explorer as well (trick is, gotta keep it accelerating on the Explorer). Actually those are just the 2 offender's I complain about.
Jul 23, 2004 (4:02 pm)
Far be it to argue with you, ANT, you're da man, but I've found my Mountaineers (Explorers) to all have great air as well. Not quite as powerful as the Nav, but very cold and adequate air volume. Plus, I get the auxiliary rear air unit, so we're hanging meat in my SUVs in minutes no matter what the climate. AND, my last 3 have all been black too.
Jul 23, 2004 (6:29 pm)
Well color doesn't have much to do with it... It's an old myth. The studies have been done comparing various different colors exterior/interior, and the same vehicle had the same temperatures no matter what color it was.
I always stick to black only because if someone scratches the paint off your bumper, the only thing that will be under, will be black...hence, it'll show less. And for interior, grey... because it hinds dirt the best.
Jul 24, 2004 (8:49 am)
nv: Yeah, maybe my vitriol has gotten out of hand. I still think my LS and Nav are top-line cars. But still think Ford is completely wrong on this issue. Next thing I'm going to do is file for arbitration, unless someone has a better idea (no pun intended:>)
ANT: Your market division eplanation makes a little more sense. But I remain unconvinced that anyone at L-M has much of a clue what they're doing. Briefly: Lincoln needs one or 2 cars to complement the LS and TC. Define the brand better. Yet, all I've heard about is the MAZDA-based Zephyr. And that maybe the LS won't be back in '06. Some rumblings about a new Continental but nothing definite. The one vehicle they should build to create brand 'gravitas' is the Mark X convertible, but Lincoln themselves said no way they'd build it about 2 days after it was first shown. In fact, I think they said they didn't like it.
Mercury being 'Ford with chrome' has not always been true. (In fact today, except for taillights, there ain't much diff between Taurus and Sable at all.) They can and have diff'd the Ford-Merc quite well. Take the 60s and 70's Mustand/Cougar. Same platform. Very different personalties. Look at the, eg, '65 Merc compared to '65 Ford and '65 Lincoln. The Mercury is clearly more related to the Lincoln. It can be and should be done. What's the point of the Sable? OK nuff of this.
Last, the discussion about HVAC above is pretty interesting. ANT's description of the way it works is accurate. I've got the maintenance CD for the LS now and have been looking at the HVAC system description. And I can identify with 90% or greater certainty what's causing my problem. Basically, there are 5 blend doors. One is called the cold air bypass door IIRC. It allows A/C air to bypass the heating element ANT mentions and go DIRECTLY to the demist/defrost, which is exactly what I'm seeing. So, either this door opens too much on mine, or at the wrong time - calibrated wrong or I just need to get the darn thing to stay closed. (And whose bright idea was it to bypass the heating for demist/defrost anyway?) I know it can work right, my Nav and Mark 8 before it proves they can do it right.
Jul 24, 2004 (9:01 am)
" just need to get the darn thing to stay closed"
I would caulk the sucker, but might lead to other issues. Next up, remove the heater core element altogether. (This in FL might be workable).. Although you won't have a heater in the winter (not something we worry about down here).
Next LS and TC will be AWD Volvo P2 platform based. The TC itself will be a vast improvement since it'll go on a unibody platform, and get rid of the Body On Frame contruction, ditch the 4 speed auto, and bring in a fresh air of modern sophistication badly needed....
Jul 24, 2004 (7:46 pm)
if they dump the panther platform for the P2, where will the Limo business, taxi, and police fleet business go? You can't drive an S-80 over curbs and keep driving - I've tried!!
Jul 24, 2004 (10:12 pm)
Doesn't mean they'll give up on the Panther... That'll stay around for fleet sales/taxi's/police.