Last post on Sep 09, 2013 at 9:47 AM
You are in the Land Rover
What is this discussion about?
Land Rover Discovery, Land Rover Discovery Series II, Audio, Entertainment System, Navigation System, Performance Mods, SUV
#3906 of 5002 Re: Charlie2K2 [tincup47]
Oct 14, 2004 (1:44 am)
And, as a member of the "American public", I believe that it makes good marketing sense to put as much distance between the former Discovery and new LR3.
Correct or not, the perception among those that I have discussed SUV's with is that the Discovery is a vehicle to be avoided. Huge depreciation hits the moment it is driven off the lot, poor handling and driving dynamics, lack of quality control and numerous and mechanical annoyances, etc. In the words of one of our neighbors who still owns a 2001 version, he went for it in part "to be different" than the generic Japanese / American SUV. However, he didn't intend "to be stupid" about being different and after having numerous mechanical problems and getting extremely low trade in value quotes (even to jump up to a Range Rover), he now describes his Discovery as "hands down, my worst automotive decision in 30 years". He happens to be a prominant reporter for the Washington Post, so I'm guessing I'm not the first he has shared this opinion with.
And anyone that checks the Washington Post and sees Discoveries being advertised at $10,000+ under MSRP - less than a Honda Pilot - are certainly not going to be inclined to rush to test drive the LR3 at a $50k MSRP if there is perceived to be ANY connection between the two. Land Rover has a tough enough job on their hands just to convince most of the American public that the LR3 is worth considering at all, even without a name connection to the Discovery.
I am interested in giving the LR3 a fair evaluation. Had it been called the "Discovery 3", I wouldn't be a candidate at $35k, let alone $50k.
#3907 of 5002 LR3 To Be Sold at MSRP
Oct 14, 2004 (9:33 am)
I decided to check into the new LR3. A colleague of mine, her dad works for Land Rover. He has been driving a test model for some time. Since he works for Ford, I asked if he could get me a deal on the new LR3. He shared that Land Rover is going to try to hold prices at MSRP for the first few months of release. He said the best he could do in good concious was ask for a $500 discount off of MSRP.
I also did some checking on my own. Land Rover has some pretty aggressive numbers for this vehicle. One Centre Manager told me that they would like to move 5,000 vehicles in the US by the end of the year. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. Land Rover historically has poor quality control on vehicles. Also, resale value stinks. So what will win out? I am hoping that banks are not fooled by the new badging. I am hoping that the past will force the dealers to sell vehicles below MSRP sooner than later. Even the best selling SUVs have some play right now. Sell 5000 vehicles or stick to MSRP?
BTW - I owned a 95 Disco, Biarritz Blue. My dad had a Disco as well. Our problems were minimal, but it wasnt the car best I've ever had either. At the time, we bought to be different too.
Oct 14, 2004 (4:15 pm)
Hmm. Your message spiked my curiosity! The Sales Guide I mentioned didn’t say anything about an “image” change. He only mentioned leases as the reason for the change in name (Discovery to LR3). So now I’m wondering: If Land Rovers had/have a bad reputation (low resale, etc.) then why is the new Land Rover Range Rover still called by the same name? Conversely, why is the new Discovery not called LR3 everywhere else in the world to get away from a perceived bad reputation? I do recall the Sales Guide mentioning something about leasing “residuals”, but I sort of blanked out after hearing that!
You work for LRNA, so do you know why the LR3 is still called Discovery throughout the world instead of following suit with north America? They've gotta' have a reason! Again, I’m curious now!
#3909 of 5002 Re: Tincup47 [charlie2k2]
Oct 14, 2004 (7:46 pm)
The reason is... everywhere else, Discovery is a respected name. Only in America it's not worth that much more than Explorer. Range Rover is still a decent brand even in North America.
#3910 of 5002 Re: Tincup47 [davidc1]
Oct 15, 2004 (5:15 am)
I just returned fom Ireland and it looks like the disco has about a 5 to 1 preference over any other SUVs. Everyone I talked with seemed to think it was the best thing since slice bread. There's also a very active 4x community there, so you do see a number of defenders as well. So branding problems appear to be largely a North American problem.
Oct 15, 2004 (7:44 am)
You are correct. Also the Discovery name goes back to 1994 in the US, but it was introduced in 1989 for the rest of the world. Also with the increase in price the LR3 is changing who it is competing with. The US marketing group feels it is targeted against the BMW X5, Lexus GX470, Mercedes ML500, VW Toureg, and Acura MDX. This is an upscale move so they wanted a fresh start.
At least this was how it was explained, I'm not in marketing.
#3912 of 5002 tincup47, gpp, davidc1
Oct 15, 2004 (10:21 am)
Well, I’m a bit confused now! Please bear with me! So in the U.S., the Discovery falls apart and has a lower than average resale value, but in the rest of the world the Discovery is a good, solid vehicle able to withstand the beating of off-road use and still hold together (?). Please, someone, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t these vehicles made in the same place? Shouldn’t all of these matters match (i.e. equally good or equally bad)?
Again, please bear with me, but why would there be such a difference of opinion in the U.S. from the rest of the world? For example, I did quite a bit of research when shopping for a vehicle and concluded (still do) the Discovery (Land Rover, for that matter) is one of the best vehicles for off-road. Since I do take off-road trips (for fossils mainly – a lot of basketball-sized rocks and boulders over which to drive) I needed a serious vehicle. The Discovery fit that niche perfectly! Perfect performance so far! So I (living in the U.S.) apparently concluded the same as the “rest” of the world, it’s a good, solid, capable vehicle. So you can see my confusion as to why my neighbors, the “general public”, perceive it as the opposite. What’s going on here? Can the five less years of exposure in the U.S. Tincup and GPP mentioned make that kind of difference?
Oct 15, 2004 (11:08 am)
Different markets, different perceptions. The Discovery does not "fall apart". Most of the issues are more annoying than disabling. Also most European Discoverys are diesels and do not have the annoying check engine light issues caused by OBDII. It could also be that customers in other markets are not as sensitive to what US customers consider to be major issues. Having been at the retail level with other brands, I can attest that many customers complain about noises, vibrations, and other issues that are very difficult for the service personnel to even notice.
As an example, my car has a fan that starts when you open the door that blows air across the temperature sensor for the ATC system. I didn't even notice this until I was on another site and the subject came up as a major problem for someone. I finally listened really closely and found out there is a very faint hum, but to the person posting it was the sign of a major defect. It's actually normal, but the poster wouldn't believe it and was trashing the car on the site.
As far as resale goes, that is driven strictly by demand in the market. The Discovery had several things going against it that made it appeal to a small customer base in the US. Interior size, egress to the rear seats, control layout, along with the questionable quality reputation. Anytime you decrease possible demand or increase supply over demand, resale values will go down. These issues are not necessarily the same in Europe, where cars are generally smaller and the customers value things differently.
#3914 of 5002 To buy or not to buy Disco 2004
Oct 15, 2004 (11:41 am)
I have fallen in love with a 2004 demonstrator Disco SE, drives like a dream, color and interior just the way I like it and the price is good.
With the price of gas at over $2.20 per gallon for hi test, I am thinking twice about buying a gass guzzler such as this -can anyone advise on the mileage the truck gets, can it use regular or any other advice on this issue? Kindly please I do realize that if I cannot afford the gas I should not buy the truck. Thanks All!
#3915 of 5002 Re: To buy or not to buy Disco 2004 [carver]
Oct 15, 2004 (3:37 pm)
Re Disco SE gas mileage. My Disco was purchased new in January of 2003. We have driven 23,566 miles. Our gas mileage over this time has averaged 15.84 mpg. We live in the Denver area, but have taken a number of trips around the country, including Florida, New Jersey, Texas, Kentucky, Washington State, and Montana. Thus, our driving includes some long distance cross-country trips. On two of these trips we averaged 16.95 mpg and 17.56 mpg respectively.
The worst single fill I have recorded is 12.97 mpg, while the best single tank full recorded 19.79 mpg. Those are extremes, and should not be expected to happen very often.
Our driving generally includes, in addition to the long trips, lots of suburban driving, and a great deal of off-road driving in Montana and Colorado. Some of our adventures have taken us over some of the higher dirt (make that rock) trails over the Colorado mountains. Running over rock trails in low range does nothing good for gas mileage, but it is all included in the above numbers.
Mileage is worse in the winter, when I am more inclined to use the Disco, rather than my small rear-wheel coupe that gets over 30 mpg (a snow thing). I am a fuel mileage conscious driver. Seldom any jack-rabbit starts, and foot off the gas when the light ahead of me turns red. Living at an altitude of over 6,000 feet, rather than closer to sea-level, can't help the gas mileage, either.
As far as repairs go, my one and only repair has been the replacement of one of the headlight low beam bulbs, purchased at the local auto store and easily replaced. I have not yet (knock on wood) experienced any of the problems that one hears about. If one of your requirements is off-roading in rugged country, the Disco is hard to beat.
My experience, of course, is only indicitative of my vehicle. Since I don't plan to sell it any time soon, I could care less what the resale value is at the moment. Your mileage and experience may be different.
I find that our Disco has lots of character to go along with its obvious quirks. I deal with the quirks and enjoy the character. If I had to revisit my decision to buy the Disco, I would do it in a minute. Good luck, which ever way you decide to go.