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#5221 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [98explorer]
Jul 21, 2006 (3:42 pm)
Ford Exp sometimes starts/sometimes doesnt by elizabethg
You failed to say what engine you have? What engine do you have? These intermitent problems can be very hard to diagnose, because when the car is starting and running ok, you simply cant find the problem. The mechanic can poke around and check a lot of things that "might" be the problem, but that takes WAY too much time when you are paying a mechanic big bucks by the hour. The new vehicles since 1996 have the new OBDII computer systems and are more complex than the older cars and require more skill to diagnose. This ain't your fathers car! A good mechanic uses good diagnostic skills to locate and solve problems, and of course, some problems can be hard to find. When they can't find the problem right away, and have no idea what it is, they will usually back off, because they know they can't charge you an enornmous sum of money just for them to tinker around with it, in hopes that he might stumble upon the source of the problem, OR NOT! The only solution is Good Diagnotics, you have to take it somewhere to a knowledgable mechanic with a well equipped shop. Is is normal to charge a diagnostic fee, which is fair, nobody should work for free, but tell them up front that you have an intermittent problem and you can't afford to throw money at it, and if they can't fix the problem or at least diagnose correctly what is actually wrong with it, then you are not paying.
The exact nature of your problem must be that the engine cranks over normally, but sometimes the engine doesn't start, is that right? If that is true, then the battery and starting system has nothing to do with the problem. If that assumption is correct so far then the mostly likely causes are fuel problems, ignition problems, IAC (Idle Air Contol valve), then computer system & sensor problems like Crankshaft Position Sensor, Throttle Position Sensor, Mass Airflow Sensor, IAT Sensor, MAP Sensor, or electrical wiring problems, leaking intake gaskets or seals, or possibly internal engine problems. I could go on, but I can only do so much over the internet. You should take the car to a good shop that has good expertise and good diagnostic equipment. A good way to find out is to call the shops on the phone, tell them what you problem is and ask they have a particular mechanic who is good at this sort of thing and what kind of testing equipment do they have? Do they have "Modern" equipment? "High Tech" equipment. They will all generally say that they have the best stuff, but pick at them and and try to pin them down, ask what KIND of equipment do they have, how NEW is it?
Good Luck elizabethg.
98 explorer doesn't start sometimes by 98explorer
You also failed to say what engine you have? What engine do you have? What I said to elizabethg applies to you too, so ditto my messege to her to you also.
Good Luck 98explorer
#5222 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [electricdesign]
Jul 21, 2006 (11:00 pm)
thank you for the feed back. my mechanic pretty much said the same thing you did. he thinks its the fuel pump going bad on me, and he could replace it, but it would only be a guess, and thats a pretty expensive guess. Its a V6, btw. Today I kinda decided I'd take it to the dealer and let them put it on their diagnostic thing...I did run it over to Pep Boys this afternoon because they have 1 of those diagnostic things, but they said if my car isnt acting up, their computer wont read that theres a problem. This is the lovely hell Im in, cuz I cant take my car on vacation til i get this resolved. *sigh*
#5223 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [elizabethg]
Jul 22, 2006 (5:53 am)
Could a rental car be the answer for the vacation?
#5224 of 6400 Re: My air conditioner won't work on a hot day but works fine when its cold? [electricdesign]
Jul 22, 2006 (9:25 am)
I have read most all your AConditioner threads and have one important question. I recently installed a rebuilt AC compressor on my 1998 Ford Explorer and replaced all appropriate parts as well as flushed. Nothing has been run as of yet but when I took it to a friend mechanic to evacuate and charge he asked if I had primed the compressor with oil or if it was already primed from the supplier. Well, I did not prime nor do I know if the supplier did and cannot find out from him for another week or so. The question is, can I charge oil via a charged oil can into the system upon immediately turning engine and AC on without risk of damage or do I need to take the lines off the compressor, blow some oil into the back end, and hand twist the compressor to move some oil inside it before allowing it to be run by the engine for complete oil and freon charge?
Thanks, Steve G.
#5225 of 6400 Re: My air conditioner won't work on a hot day but works fine when its cold? [bopilot]
Jul 22, 2006 (10:50 am)
Let's review the procedures and the order that they should be done in. Refer back to my post #5116, I think that post had most of the information that pertains to your question.
You said "replaced all appropriate parts as well as flushed", then you stated that "if I had primed the compressor with oil or if it was already primed from the supplier?". I sounds like you may have been confused on the procedure, because it sounds like you have assembled all the parts together and NOT added the oil. Is that correct? If so, then re read part of the text of my former messege post below.
"When you are ready to start the project, have all the new parts and tools ready. Buy the compressor with NO oil in it, shipped DRY, so that you can add your own oil of the proper type. Have the proper AC oil, 9 ounces of "Double End Capped" PAG 100 oil. Have the old refrigerant recovered by a AC shop, they would probably do this for free, since they get to keep the refrigerant. It is against the law to intentionally discharge refrigerant into the air. Remove the Belt, Remove the compressor, Remove the orifice tube, and Remove the Accumulator. Since the system is now open, you have the opportunity to do an optional step, to flush the system(highly recommended), you could flush out the condenser, the evaporator and the hoses at this point if you would like. This would help to ensure a clean system and remove the old oil, which would help to ensure a long life for the new compressor. The cleanliness of the system is the most important factor for compressor life. Use new o-rings on all the connections. If you flushed out the system, you will now need to put in a full charge of oil, 9 ounces of "Double End Capped" PAG 100 oil. Put 4 ounces in the compressor, 2 ounces in the evaporator, 1 ounce in the condenser, and 2 ounces in the accummulator. Next install the compressor, orifice tube and the accumulator. Rotate the center hub of the compressor at least 10 times to clear oil from the valves. Then connect the gauges and vaccuum pump and pull a deep vaccuum(29" or more) on the system for an hour. Close the valves on the gauges and turn off the vaccuum pump, vacuum on the system should hold, watch it for at least 15 minutes to be sure the vaccuum doesn't creep up. If you loose vaccuum, look for a leak, check your connections, turn the compressor shaft to be sure the compressor shaft seal seals. Put the Vent Temperature Thermometer into the dash outlet vent of the vehicle. After evacuating and the vaccuum holds, ENGINE OFF, close both valves on gauges, connect refrigerant can to the gauges charging hose, purge the yellow charging hose of air, slowly open low side valve on gauges to slowly charge refrigerant into the vaccuum, holding can upside down, using the can tap valve to control the flow of refrigerant. Start engine, charge in until can is empty."
You will notice in the text that it says to flush the system FIRST, THEN install and connect the new parts. In your particular case, You said you flushed the system, which means that you flushed the old parts, which means you flushed out ALL the oil out of the system. Is that correct? When you replaced the compressor and "appropriate parts", I assume you at least also replaced the accumulator and the orifice tube. The text in my former post says AFTER the parts are flushed clean, then ADD the new oil in the approriate quantitiies to each of the parts as follows "Put 4 ounces in the compressor, 2 ounces in the evaporator, 1 ounce in the condenser, and 2 ounces in the accummulator" You do this while the system is still open. Then you next install and connect the new parts with the oil in each of the new parts. So when the system is closed it then contains the FULL charge of oil. Then you simply evacuate the air from the system, the oil remains in the system, then if the vaccuum holds like it should, you can charge the system. In your case you do not know if the compressor had oil or not. This is very critical because you do not want to overcharge the system with oil. You should have ascertained wether it had oil in it or not when you purchased it, VERY important. It is important that you put the correct amount of oil in the system when you CLOSE the system, that way you are SURE of how much OIL is in the system. Right now you don't know. You will either have to find out from who you bought the compressor from, or pull the compressor off and drain it to be sure it has no oil, then refill it and the rest of the system with the proper amount of oil. Have you put any oil in any of the components? It is always better to fill all the components with oil before you close the system, than charging in oil later when charging, because you don't want to start off with the compressor running dry. The important part is that you have a full 9 ounce charge of the correct refrigerant oil evenly distributed in the system.
#5226 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [electricdesign]
Jul 22, 2006 (11:02 am)
the engine is a 4.0 6 cylinder we replaced the battery and it seems to try to start but won't. thamks so much for any advice!
#5227 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [98explorer]
Jul 22, 2006 (12:33 pm)
Thanks for the quick response. Must have missed the reference so after reviewing your copy I see what needs to be done. Nothing has been run so and a new accumulator, orfice tube, and interconeect hose from accumulator to condensor have been installed. Yes, the system that was left was flushed. Per your instructions I am to remove the compressor, check for oil and apply as instructed.
I am confused as to installing the refrigerent. You said to hold first can upside down but did not say whether the following cans need to be upright or upside down for liquid. Please clarify.
The local mechanics use the "venturi" evacuators which I was avoiding but if it is OK will purchase one from local supply house and do it all myself. What is your opinion of this method?
#5228 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [98explorer]
Jul 22, 2006 (12:34 pm)
Ok, You replaced the battery, but I'm not sure if that had anything to do with your starting problem. All you said was "hard to start". When the engine is hard to start, do you mean that the engine does not crank, or turn over slowly or sluggisly, or do you mean that the engine cranks over normally but just does not start?
#5229 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [electricdesign]
Jul 22, 2006 (1:44 pm)
it cranks over normally, it just doesn't start, it's getting a spark and fuel checked and cleaned the idle air control valve and still nothing, it seems to do this more when parked at an angle
#5230 of 6400 Re: 98 explorer doesn't start sometimes [bopilot]
Jul 22, 2006 (1:45 pm)
Installing the refrigerant is easy, just be careful. You hold ALL the cans upsidedown to charge liquid refrigerant into the system. The reason why, is that if you hold the can upright and charge with gas, the liquid in the can boils into gas, making the can freeze and the pressure in the can drops very low. You hold the can upside down so that the liquid does NOT boil in the can, you want the can to stay warm, so that the pressure in the can does not drop down too low. It is very important to note that you should start with the vaccuum in the system, HIgh side valve on the Gauge set closed, Low side valve open, and with the can connected to the charging hose, with the valve on the can tap CLOSED. When ready to start charging, hold can upside down and very slowly open the can tap valve,watching the low pressure gauge, begin to charge the refrigerant into the vaccuum on the low side. You should see the low side guage slowly rise up out of a vaccuum the build up pressure. As the low side builds up pressure, watch the high side gauge, it should slowly start to rise also (this indicates that the gas is flowing from the low side through the orifice into the high side. You should keep charging until the pressure stops rising, this will depend on how cold or warm the can in your hand is. If you kept the can from getting cold, the pressure should be up to around 80 to 100 lbs. Then start the engine, and set the AC to MAX AC HIGH BLOWER. The AC clutch should engage and the compressor will start pumping the refrigerant from the low side to the high side, making the low side pressure drop, and high side pressure increase. Once the can is empty, the low side pressure should drop very low, the compressor will start cycling, turn off the can tap and remove the can. Put on the second can, slowly open the can tap to slowly charge refrigerant into the low side, Use the can tap valve as a throttle valve to control the rate of refrigerant flow into the low side, and to control low side pressure from going over 60 pounds. Keep the low side pressure under 60 pounds while you are charging the system, to keep from slugging the compressor with liquid refrigerant. Check the lable on your system to see how much refrigerant it should take. I think about 30 ounces would be close, just under 3 cans. But don't just go by the volume or the weight, observe the pressures in your system and put in just the right amount of charge to bring your pressures and temperatures into the correct range. See the attached text at the bottom of this post.
Whatever, you want to use for a Vaccuum Pump is fine, as long as it is able to suck a good vaccuum, down to 29 inches. The Venturi types use air, and may take a lot of air to operate, so be sure you have a good air supply before you get one. Most do it yourselfers buy the single stage electric vaccuum pumps, they are the cheapest ones. Most shops buy the dual stage electric vaccuum pumps, because they do a good job and last longer. You may be able to find one at a tool rental outlet.
Since you are new to this, I included some text from an AC paper I wrote, that explains about how to charge your AC System. You may find this useful:
There are two ways to tell what the refrigerant is doing in the system, you must use Both:
First, with the AC Gauges, reading the high side & low side pressures.
Second, is measuring or feeling the temperatures of the lines & vents during the charging process.
Start the engine, set the A/C to Max Cool, High Blower. With Engine idling, as you slowly charge the refrigerant into the low side vacuum, the evaporator begins to fill with boiling refrigerant as the charge is increased. As the charge is further increased, cold refrigerant vapor and mist begins to flow into the accumulator. Then at the final amount of charge, cold vapor & refrigerant mist begin to flow towards the suction port of the compressor. You MUST FEEL the suction line at the compressor to see how cold it is at the SAME TIME that you are watching your gauges & charging the system. When you JUST BEGIN feel the coolness starting to come through the accumulator and then reaches the compressor suction port, STOP charging & let the system stabilize, before continuing. You MUST STOP CHARGING when the pressures look good & when the temperature of the suction line to the compressor BEGINS to get cool. Set the engine to run at 1500 rpm, you want the line at the Compressor suction port to be cold. Charging the A/C is a fine Balancing Act, to get it just right and achieve 100% system performance. DO NOT OVERCHARGE. If you do overcharge, the system will not cool very well, the A/C will not be as cold, & you may slug the compressor with liquid refrigerant, causing damage to the compressor. It is best to charge it a little under, than a little over. On an an average FLORIDA day of 90 degrees as an example, the high side should run about 210 to 235, low side should run about 21 to 30.
Pressures will vary slightly according to your climate and location. Expect slightly higher pressures when the outside air temperature is hotter. There is a general rule of thumb that the high side pressure should be about 2.3 to 2.6 times the ambient air temperature (outside air temperature in the shade).