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Pickups Pickups - Archived Discussions Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - VI 
632 messages, Last post on Jun 25, 2000 at 2:12 PM
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MY Charger doesn't use that much more fuel. And my engine design is not an antiquated 2 stroke design from the 60's. Did you know that 1 snowmobile causes as much air pollution as 100 cars? |
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\\Not everyone has the ability to crosscounty ski or canoe a lake. Some see the great outdoors in power boats, snow mobiles and Rangers and Tacomas.\\ I agree. And there are places for that. But not EVERY place should be full of motor boats and roads. 9o some percent of the lower 48 is roaded and trailed. Should we build roads into every wild corner just so a few folks can get a nice view once a year? I don't think so. And I don't think the disabled would want this either. There are PLENTY of beautiful drives through our wildlands and parks. We don't need more roads in the national forests. \\You have NO right to deny them access just because you do not agree.\\ I am not denying anyone access. I am just propogating BALANCE. And the balance right now goes heavily towards motors and roads. \\Do not turn around too slow spoog, your Tacoma just may be on a hit list as being dangerious to the environment and be listed on some executive order somewhere.\\ Whatever. Give me a freaking break. Take this consiracist looney-crap somewhere else please. \\BTW I feel fortunate to have grown up at a time where I could and did own, without government restrictions, a 69 Coronet 500, 383CID with 345 hp v8 that would rip the paint off that fancy Tacoma of yours as it passed it by.\\ It's nice to dream, isn't it? \\ Those were the days. Sorry for you that you missed those days. It was a heck of a decade,. . .\\ Thats ok. I'll pass. |
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A skier is not better than or more entitled to be out doors than a snowmobiler. BUT they DO have MUCH lower environmental impact. they also tend to much more educated in backcountry safety. Any Jacka$$ can get a snowmobile and race into the backcountry with no training at all. With skiing (and its evil stepchild, snowboarding  ) you can not do this, only the best dare to step out of bounds to earn their turns.Answer me this : why in the three avalanche courses that I have taken has there NEVER been 1 snowmobiler there. Wildernees areas are for the WILDERNESS. If you want to visit the wilderness get off your a$$ and go in under your own power. When i hike ski bike or whatever, I dont want to hear an engine or smell an engine. I love my truck, but i would love to spend less time in it. that last post by spoog might be his best one yet. thank god it didnt habve that damn 4wheeler review in it |
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Lake powell (technically a reservoir) was built by the bureau of reclamation on a partial platform that many people could not Access this beautiful country. So thier answer was lets fill it up with water. And by doing this they buriedup many of the beautiful things they were claiming to make easier for people to see. Glen canyon was one of the most beautiful canyons in the southwest. Now its a big lake that evaporates millions of gallons a day. The mighty Colorado river never reaches the ocean anymore. that has more to do with all the dams than all the golf courses in Arizona. Now we have all this Great water for all our water sports. Anybody been over the three bridges on the northwestern edge of the lake? I have, its sickening. Oil slicks, solid waste, and trash are all swept into the little side canyons. anyone that hasnt seen Rainbow bridge better go see it now before the water erodes its base away and it topples to the water below. you can practically drive you boat right up to it. We dont drive our cars into our churches, museums, concert halls, and other Cherished placesof our culture. Why do we feel the need to bring them in to our Countries natural treasures? PS... next time you are there tell me how beautiful that bathtub ring lake powell now has is |
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| ..till the two weeks on the river ..no cars, no radios, no trafic.. CANT WAIT | |
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I do not disagree with your statments, however my question is on the designation of hundreds of thousands of acres of NEW wilderness areas. All by executive order, NOT the will of the people effected. We are a REPRESENTED in government not a monarchy and the State senators and representitives of those areas were not even consulted before it was said and done. AND the latest areas in Colo were just GRABBED, NO FUNDING TO MANAGE THEM IS ALLOCATED. You must understand oil reserves larger than Saudi Arabia are UNDER most of the most recently designated wilderness area land. I agree with you regarding noise in a Wilderness area, however, some of us older people with arthritic knees cannot trudge 10-15 miles off the beaten path. But we can drive and walk the shorter distances to some of the areas less traveled. Speaking of roads less traveled, went to Yankee Hill Road, I think that is what it was called, Saturday. You go up Fall River Road, bear to the right near the top on Lake road and then find Mine road. It goes from there, Idahoe Springs to Central City. Went with my sons Toyota and a guy called coloranger, with an 87 XLT, 2.9, lifted, that, as spoog would say, crappy Explorer front and rear differentials, and a set of 4.56 gears. Well, to make it short, that old ranger will outclimb mine and my sons Toyota. I hit an area, very deep holes, steep, very loose dirt. I may have been able to make it if I had hit it a bit faster but I stopped rather than get in deep. And before I am asked, a locker would have just dug me in deeper. Well, the 87 went right thru it like it was not there. Took some pics and will post soon as the roll is done. Lots of neet trails up there and will go back. BTW, I will not go into details but with the latest ineptness of the Energy Dept., the guys that also control oil (seen the pump price lately) everyone should be sweating bullets regarding those Los Alamos disks. You heard it here first. |
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I do not particularly like Lake Powell, in fact have never been there, went to Havasu instead. My comments were to spoog who, other than lake Michigan, thinks a large lake is like Dillon. But you forgot to mention about for whom Lake Powell was built. So. California Which is the main reason the Colorado does not flow to the Gulf of Calif. any longer. |
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| Are you saying EVERY snow boarder and x-country skier goes to those classes?? There is an irony to this discussion because the couple of skiers I know can't stand snow boarders!!!! I respect your hobby and I promise you that if I was snow mobiling I would steer clear of skiers and give the right of way when possible much like I do while power boating and come across sail or self propelled craft. But please don't throw your values on me and deny my usage of the land. | |
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While it may be true that skiers may be less of an environmental impact, let's stop the stereotyping. That same jacka$$ can sure as hell strap a couple of skis on his feet too. To me it seems that anyone who chooses to ditch the marked trails and trapse off into the wilderness is usually ignorant and inexperienced whether skier or snowmobiler. I personally have never attended an avalanche course because it's not an issue here in WI/IL. Anyways, I'll just continuing enjoying the wilderness using whatever method of transportation I choose to employ whether it be my snowmobile, my mountain bike, my hiking boots, or whatever. |
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injured, some seriously, than 4X4 or ATV drivers. Also, the monetary impact of looking for a &$#  ^&*($ xcountry skier who got in over his head far exceeds that for looking for a 4X4 driver in the back country because except in rare cases a 4X driver is better equipped and has a road to follow.Do you KNOW how many newly created wilderness area guards that money spent finding skiers could fund?!? Look, scott, I respect yours and spoogs opinions, and I do not think a 4X4, jetskier, speed boat etc user on this board would go out of his way to damage the environment. BUT... resign yourselves to the FACT, there are more people using motorized recreation equipment than not. I have canoed Lake Louise in Canada, canoed the Delaware, conoed Grand Lake, rafeted the Arkansas and Yampa rivers, hiked 2-3 deep woods trails in Rocky Mtn NAtional Park too. I am too big to ride the mules down Grand Canyon but then again the whackos from PETA would get on my case about that... So do not think I have not done the things you like. But no, a STRONG no to locking up the beauties of this country for dozens to enjoy while leaving out hundreds of thousands. And that is about the ratio. You see, the argument "It is worth it if it saves one _______." fill in the blank. No it is not worth it sometimes. You want Wilderness? Charter the flight that takes you out to the wilds of Alaska and LEAVES you for two weeks to fend for food with the bears. What too tough for you? I have know a few that have done it and would love to do it myself, given I could take my .300 Win and slip in my Ranger too(just kidding about the Ranger). Actually trying to go to Kodiak for launch support but may just put the 300 in the baggage if I do. That would be a great experience to see Alaskan wilderness. |
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