Last post on Feb 16, 1999 at 10:23 PM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
Dec 23, 1998 (9:24 pm)
Isuzu?? I know they make small diesels...have seen them in the small Isuzu delivery trucks, but do they make the larger ones? What is their reliability record? Would this be a brand new engine, or one that's already proven. Its pretty hard to top the Cummins in the Dodge for reliability. I like the sound of the horsepower and torque that cdean quotes. I also assume that it will be a turbo given the numbers cdean is quoting.
Do you know if this new engine will coincide with the expansion of the Silverado line to the 2500 and 3500 series??
If the Isuzu is a solid engine, it could be worth waiting for. I appreciate the info. I'll keep posted for more.
#6 of 54 FETZ
Dec 23, 1998 (9:32 pm)
I found an article about the GM/Isuzu deal at auto.com. It's very general, no specifics. I too would like to find out more. I think the 2001 time frame was about right though, as the article states production will begin sometime in 2000.
Here's a copy of it. Hope nobody sues me for any copyright infringement! Sorry it didn't paste in here very well.
GM, Isuzu team up to build
diesel engine in Ohio
September 9, 1998
BY TED EVANOFF
Detroit Free Press Automotive Writer
General Motors Corp. is forming a joint venture
with Isuzu Motors Ltd. to build a diesel-engine plant
near Dayton, Ohio.
The factory will cost more than $100 million and
employ 700 workers when it opens for production
in 2000. It will supply 6.6-liter diesel engines for
GM sport-utility vehicles, pickup trucks and
The 550 workers at GM's existing diesel-engine
plant in Moraine, Ohio, are eligible for transfers to
the nearby Isuzu plant when it opens. GM expects
300 will transfer and the rest will have retired by the
time the new plant is running.
GM Chairman Jack Smith is to dedicate the new
plant today in a ceremony with Isuzu Chairman
GM, which owns 37.5 percent of Isuzu, has been
giving the Japanese automaker more work in the
diesel field. Last year, Isuzu took the reins in
worldwide diesel-engine development for GM. That
was part of GM's initiative to focus development in
the hands of companies that have the most
expertise. For example, GM's Adam Opel AG
operation in Germany was given the lead in
For Isuzu, the new factory would give it the
opportunity to become a major engine maker in the
United States, especially if diesel engines come into
wider acceptance among consumers.
Diesels power about 22 percent of Europe's cars
and a new generation of direct-injection diesels
common in Europe is thought to be less harmful to
the environment than gasoline engines. Some
industry analysts predict diesels will become
increasingly popular in the Untied States because of
the environmental angle and their greater fuel
"In the long run, you're looking at increased demand
for diesels, particularly in sport-utility vehicles," said
auto analyst Jim Gillette of the research firm
International Research Network Inc. in Grand
The new plant will have the capacity to turn out
about 100,000 6.6-liter, V8 engines a year,
estimated industry analyst Michael Robinet of CSM
Forecasting in Farmington Hills.
Those engines will go into commercial trucks,
replacing the current generation of 6.5-liter diesel
made in Moraine. And they'll be available for
passenger vehicles such as the full-size C/K pickup
trucks and the Chevrolet Suburban sport-utility.
#7 of 54 cdean
Dec 24, 1998 (4:58 am)
Isuzu makes large diesels for some delivery type trucks. I've had no experience with them, i've heard a good reliability report from one guy. i do know that Isuzu makes very large industrial diesel engines such as those that go in offshore liners, crewboats trains and such. so they have been building diesels for a while. i think the chevy engine will be a new design from the ground up.
I heard the horsepower and torque #'s from 2 unrelated people: a dealer who is a good friend of mine, and 2) an tech that works at a diesel fuel pump repair shop; he has been to a seminar covering new automotive fuel pumps, and the engines they go on.
Dec 24, 1998 (7:39 pm)
Sounds promising! Thanks for all the information. I think I will wait for this new engine to materialize. I like everything else about Chevy and GMC trucks so much, that I know that I would be disappointed if I went for the Ford or Dodge.
The new Silverado is pretty nice. I haven't driven one yet, but I like the room in the extended cab. I expect that the 3500 series will be equally as good. I am waiting for the dually to arrive, sounds like 2001 possibly. If the new diesel is ready then, it could be real competition for Ford and Dodge. GM just can't afford to screw up another diesel though!!! Let's hope the Isuzu relationship works and GM doesn't ruin a good thing!
Thanks again for all the info all!
Dec 24, 1998 (8:33 pm)
I think the Ram 2500 with the 24 valve Cummins Turbo diesel is awesome. I especially love the spacious interior of the reg cab model with leather seating, something you can't get right now with the Silverado reg cab. Still, what I don't like is the live axle front suspension on the Ram 4x4 and F250 super duty. Having an independent front suspension is the largest reason why the Silverado 4x4 rides so much better. I was looking for a work that I could load an ATV in the back, and haul it to Utah from Colorado pulling my motorcycle trailer behind. That would be easy money for the Ram. But even though that 20-21 mpg of the diesel is great, when I factored in that diesel fuel in Colorado cost 23% (taxes I'm sure) more on average than unleaded regular, 20 mpg now becomes the equivalent of 15. So I ordered the Silverado 1500 reg cab 4x4 instead. It's not going to be as tough as the Ram or Super Duty, but with EPA 15/18 ratings it will end up more economical, unless I was going to keep it for 300,000 miles. For the diesel, that is appealing, but I had to take into consideration my own habits, that I have purchased and maintained every vehicle to drive it for 200,000 miles, yet end up finding something else far sooner because I get bored, or something else becomes a "must have." By the way, the Silverado with the Z85 suspension rides better, and is quieter than anything I have been in except a Lexus LS400.
#10 of 54 Rich
Dec 25, 1998 (1:31 am)
I had always been a GM man. I got spoiled by my first Ford F-250, ('86) and never looked back. My '99 F-250 7.3L PSD rides almost as smooth as my son's '98 Explorer Sport. The '86 was great in quality, a '92 F-250 even better and this '99 is unbelievable! This is the first new vehicle that hasn't been back to the dealer for nit picking issues. Back in the late '70s and early '80s I wouldn't even rent Fords due to poor quality. But things have really changed. I think that if you got yourself a '99 PDS you wouldn't be disappointed.
The only complaints that I have with my '99 SC F-250 PSD are no lights in the cup holders and the trailer towing blind spot mirrors don't allow for adjustment. (Their aiming ain't bad but just not perfect.) How's that for nit picking?
Dec 27, 1998 (2:11 am)
Has anybody seen dodges new powerwagon show truck.
They say it will resemble the next ram trucks in the coming years, and the diesel engine, well its it CAT! 250hp, and 780LBS torque. Dodge must have something brewing with CAT and I hope it falls through. And I also hope that they keep the cummins as well. All I know is that dodges next truck is really really going to kill the competition!
#12 of 54 KEEP DREAMING Dodgeman
Dec 27, 1998 (2:20 am)
Dodge Dogs never will kill GM and Ford
#13 of 54 kcram
by kcram HOST
Dec 27, 1998 (6:32 am)
Then you better check some sales figures. Ford and Dodge are #1 and #2 in diesel pickup sales. GM isn't even close. And Ford is ahead of Dodge strictly on volume. If Dodge and Cummins could raise production with more plants, they could easily be the number one diesel pickup. GM has always fallen flat on its face with diesel pickups - first the converted Olds 350 (what a joke in a truck), then the weak 6.2, then the problematic 6.5. I will give GM all the credit in the world for doing some things well (automatic transmissions for one), but diesels aren't one of those things.
Dec 28, 1998 (1:41 am)
Listen up Kcram. I own a 1994 chevrolet 1 tonne 6.5 turbo diesel. I am using it as a welding rig. It is carrying a weight of 15000 pounds, and on top of that it can tow a further 11000 pounds on top of that. I dare you to find another truck capable of that. This is not dodgeram talking. I was just visiting and was shown this site. Upon seeing your remarks about the gm 6.5 diesel, I had to reply.