Last post on Apr 07, 1998 at 5:10 AM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
Mar 15, 1998 (6:31 am)
I am currently looking for a full size replacement for my S-10 and the choices are few.Only Ford seems to have a serious truck when the criteria goes beyond looks. I compare Toyota to the Honda motorcycles of the past. Everyone laughed at the notion of any company challenging Harley for cruisers or bikers. Guess what! I was one and I love my bikes from Honda so don't get too comfortable about Toyota's future in big trucks. I agree that Ford is the best;but no company should rest on it's laurels.
Mar 15, 1998 (8:37 pm)
I agree 100%. The more competition, the better the product from all of the competitors. I think the new Dodge Ram woke up Chevy and Ford. It seems like Ford and Chevy had waited quite a long time before coming out with fully redesigned models. What was it for Ford? Maybe 15 years on their heavy duty models? If Toyota can get serious about the truck market, all of the trucks will get better, sooner. I just don't see how they can compete with the tarriffs. Their vehicles will be $5,000+ more expensive.
#18 of 25 lwf
Mar 16, 1998 (3:13 am)
"I just don't see how they can compete with the tarriffs."
The answer to that is they're going to build them in Princeton, Indiana.
But you're probably right anyway. Toyota, being Toyota, will more than likely have an MSRP that'll be about 10-to-15% more than a comparable Chevy, Dodge or Ford, and since Toyota seems to think that $2,500 over invoice is appropriate for their vehicles (as opposed to $200 to $400 over invoice for the big-3 pick-ups), we might very well see the T150 costing $5,000+ more than the American full-sized trucks. My guess is that it'll be $8,000. Maybe we should start a pool! Only kidding.
Mar 17, 1998 (8:59 pm)
Someone said that the T-150's wont sell. I disagree! The reason the T-100's are so expensive is that they are made in Japan and theres a 25% tariff placed on them when they come into the country. Toyota has plans to make the T-150 in the United states. Say goodbye to the tariff. That means Toyota quality at a reasonable price.
#20 of 25 firstname.lastname@example.org
Mar 21, 1998 (9:15 pm)
Maybe there won't be a tariff on the assembled Toyota T-150; but isn't there some sort of tariff on the components imported for assembly here?
I think that the T-150 (even the T-100) will do very well as a daily driver and light weekend chores. The real test will be when someone drops a 5th wheel with 10,000 gross weight and 1,000 hitch weight into the T-150. When a rig like that makes it from L.A. to either Vegas or Phoenix without problems I think that Toyota may then have entered the American truck market.
Mar 25, 1998 (9:51 pm)
I agree with all of your responses. Toyota will have to prove itself and I would wait until I see the results before buying. Personally, I hope it is soon that the T-150 arrives for Brutus was correct on how it will affect the big 3. Even if one never buys one, we will all benefit.
#22 of 25 edr3
Mar 27, 1998 (12:15 am)
It's fun reading the bantering back and forth! Brand loyalty rears it's head as usual, so I guess I'll jump in with my two cents worth.
The Toyota will be built in the US and I don't remember ever reading about a tariff being imposed on the parts coming in from Japan (that's why they're building them here), so price should go down or at least stay close to that of the T100 Toyota's sells today. On the other hand Toyota parts are expensive - I'll be curious to see if that changes or stays the same.
I'll admit, Toyota has slacked off in quality a bit and the US brands are catching up - finally! Yet I continue to read too much about the American brand problems (see as an example the comment from a QA consultant to industry, in the SUV section under Ford-vs-Chevy-vs-Dodge. He talks about buying a Tahoe/Yukon from the Northern GM assembly plant versus the Southern GM plant - I can't remember the exact details, but his comment was to ask where it was built and avoid buying from the plant building them in the north - major quality problems). While new car quality may be great for Ford, let's check back on that same set of vehicles in a few years. I still buy a car with the long term quality being one of my primary decision factors.
Toyota is no dummy, they didn't get to be one of the best by making basic mistakes. I bought an '88 Toyota with the (at the time) new 3.0L V6 and after 6 years and 135K miles I sold it - never having experienced a problem.
I believe the engine going into the T150 will be the same or a derivation of the engine in the Lexus LS400. As a side note - Ivan "the Iron Man" Stewart has been using a race version of the T150's engine in his desert race truck, with great success.
While I like most trucks, I need a reliable one to get me to work as well as get me, my gear and camping trailer into the hills for weekend hunting and fishing trips! I liked my Jeep, but after monthly trips to the dealer for minor problems, a factory engine replacement and 2 tow jobs due to blown seals, I finally said it's been fun, but I'm headin' back to Toyota!
At that time I looked at most American brands, but the American brands were either underpowered or they didn't sell the big 6 cylinders with a five speed, or the combination I wanted, a good 6 cyl. or V8 power and a manual, sucked down the gas. So I bought another Toyota and I'm anxiously awaiting the T150's arrival and more details so that I can plan my next purchase.
While I agree that the Toyota T150 probably won't haul a huge fifth wheel or horse trailer, most of us don't really need it for that - and most of the truck owners I know don't use their trucks that way either. I want the reliability the Toyota offers, and while the Toyota's initial price is high, it operating cost is realtively low over it's life time. When you factor in gas mileage estimates - I figure it will be about 25% better than the other similar (gas) trucks from Ford, Chevy & Dodge. Based on these thoughts I just can't see the other brands beating out Toyota for my "average joe" needs anyway.
I do like the advantages offered by the diesels (my dad drives a newer Dodge Cummins 2500 extended cab) but I can't see them fitting into my life. The wife and kids would probably kill me starting one up in the garage early each morning before heading off to work - that is it I could even get a full size extended cab to fit in the garage!
I have and will continue to read and research this topic and hope to someday find that the American brands are back in front - and for the long haul. Until then, I'll keep driving my Toyota and smile when my old (and young) American-brand-loyal friends make fun of my "rice burner."
'til we banter again, drive safely.
#23 of 25 wesl
Mar 27, 1998 (6:25 am)
lets banter, shall we? I agree the t-150 will be a decent truck, but it will only compete with the F-150. Even then, Toyota can only produce 100,000 trucks. They only sold 27,000 the first year on the market, making the truck a non-issue for Ford. In 1997, they peddled 700,000+ F-series trucks, making it the best selling vehicle in the World. When Ford starting taking orders for the heavy duty models, they had 50,000 orders in the first week. I know you like Toyota, but the F-150 is a great truck. Even Consumer Reports likes it. Toyota has their work cut out for them. One thing Toyota need to do is work on a decent range. I find their trucks to be one flavor only. Can't wait to see how the market shapes up. BTW, I'm a Ford fan thats waiting eagerly for the first T-150's to show up. Until then, I dream about a F-350 Supercab Diesel 4x4.
#24 of 25 edr3
Apr 04, 1998 (12:16 am)
Sorry it's been awhile, but I'm ready to banter away!
I'll have to agree with your thoughts on Ford, I do like the Ford F150 and did seriously consider buying one.
While the numbers for Ford are impressive, I think it's a bit difficult to compare an F150 line to the Toyota trucks, Ford does offer an incredible range of options and packages, with GMC and Dodge being the only ones even having a chance of coming close to those kinds of numbers. Also, it's hard not to sell that many trucks at the price they're selling them at. They've been selling the old style F250 4x4 around here for under $20K!!
On the other hand, I think it would be a great comparison to run the Ford F150 extended cab 3-door 5.2L V8 5 speed side by side with the T150 4-door 4.7L V8 5 speed. Thinking about it has me drooling!
I'm not too interested in how big or heavy a horse trailer either can tow, leave that to the new American V10s and diesels! I did look at the Ford Super Duty at the Denver auto show and was impressed, those thing are HUGE!!
But looking at this realistically, I personally use my truck 90% of the time for commuting and 10% for recreation (which are numbers I would love to reverse - but I gotta pay those bills); therefore, I'm more interested in a comparison of the typical performance numbers, on and off road comfort and performance, mpg, pricing, etc. If only Ford could find a way to get an average of 20 mpg out of the 5.2 triton, I'd love to buy it. I'm pretty sure Ford and Toyota probably don't add up to those kinds of numbers on paper, but I do know first hand that the Toyota does great in gas mileage in real life driving, at least it has when I driven them. I'm not as sure about the Fords, they've always seemed to have had slightly lower mpg numbers than comparible trucks. I do know my old 3.0L Toyota truck, and a friends Chevy Blazer 4.3L with V6s got better gas mileage than the 2.8L and 4.0L Ford V6s a few years ago.
Finally, I'll agree that Toyota has been pretty lame with their product range - the truck's style is okay, while the new Camry looks like a modern version of a 70's Chevy Nova - BORING!!! They seem to lack style. On the other hand, Toyota seems to be working with their California design studio these days and their TRD group is starting to put out some great product - maybe they're finally getting the message that American's like to be individualists. No wonder the aftermarket parts industry is going nuts.
I hope you get your F350 Diesel and enjoy it. I'll just drive my little T150 or the F150 (depending on how the show down goes) and sleep happily at night with it tucked away in my garage, where I know it will fit.
Take care guys!
Apr 07, 1998 (5:10 am)
Just a quick not on the F150: I drive my 97 F150 Lariat Supercab on the highway and get an honest 18 mpg. It drives great and I feel like I am in a luxury car it is so well made and so well integrated
I bought one of the less than full size trucks with a back seat and we couldn't get the kids in it for more than a half hour without getting uncomfortable. That is why I went for the full size truck.