Last post on Mar 23, 2008 at 7:43 AM
You are in the Honda Odyssey
What is this discussion about?
Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Van
#739 of 7485 My '91 Grand Voyager Fuel Rail Leaked
Dec 16, 2001 (6:18 pm)
This isn't a new problem that started with the '96 model year. The leak on my '91 Grand Voyager fuel rail was EXACTLY as shown in the illustration in the article. At the time (Feb of 99), Chrysler had already recalled the LH cars for this problem, so I called them about getting mine fixed on their dime. I had 87K miles on it. They flatly refused. I had an independent shop fix it to the tune of $890.
Now I see they STILL had the SAME problem at least up into the 2000 model year. That is NINE YEARS! What in the world does it take to get this company to fix defects! Transmissions bad starting in '89 all the way up to '98 at least; fuel rail leaks for nine years; paint peeling on '89 thru '96 at least; rear tailgate strut mounts breaking off and allowing the heavy tailgate to fall; tailgate latches that could not take a hit and stay latched. And these are just the things I see as I look through all my repair reciepts. Other items that happened to my van: piston rings siezed to pistons, causing huge oil consumption and requiring overhaul at 58k; starter failed around 80K; water pump failed at 58K; A/C compressor went at 98K (that one cost me $1200). There's more, of course, but it would be a boring read. I can't believe, now that I have reviewed my van's repair history, that I really seriously considered buying another DC van. Man, they drive good and look good. In my opinion, though, it's a siren's song.
Anybody else with Fuel Rail leaks on any year 3.3L or 3.8L DC van? Let us know if DC paid for the repair or not. I think this thing is much bigger than it might first appear.
Dec 17, 2001 (3:30 am)
I guess the answer to which van is the best is both are nice vans but the problem is they both have had problems in the past and only one seems to fix the problems. Thats Honda. DC has had trans problems for over 10 years before they sound like they finally fixed the problem. Fuel fires for just about as long, and the 01 still had a fuel leak. Is it now fixed. Only time will tell. DC had a tailgate problem that took what about 4 years before they started fixing them on recall and big pressure from Uncle Sam. I'm not saying Honda don't have problems, but their track record on repairs is 100% better than DC's. You can have the pretty dash, I'll take the quality.
#741 of 7485 Here is another review of the Honda Odyssey.
Dec 17, 2001 (8:09 am)
And regarding 4adodge's comments as to the burned up T&C's dash beingpretier than the Odyssey, I think it is a clear demonstration of his complete bias towards the T&C van. Those reading his posts should take his opinions with that knowledge.
#742 of 7485 Quality improvements
Dec 17, 2001 (8:41 am)
I agree that DC has been way too reluctant to take care of some of its quality issues. I am glad that they have some pressure from competition to motivate them to improve. I hope that their new leadership will have a better understanding of the importance of customer satisfaction even when it is on small items.
dkrab - Sorry to hear of all of the problems with your '91. If it is any consolation the starter on my '92 Toyota Tercel also failed at 80K.
gglen1 - I figured it was a typo. I was just giving you a hard time.
Dec 17, 2001 (6:36 pm)
Quality issues are one thing; safety is another (more important) issue. You can argue over whether one van is likely to be more reliable than another from either side and probably be correct - there will always be sample variations that skew one way or another.
Safety is one place where DaimlerChrysler/Chrysler vans have fallen demonstrably short, whether that's the faulty tailgate latches that went on for years, the faulty antilock brakes Chrysler fought (and lost) over recalling, or the fire-prone engine fuel systems that it's taken so long to sort out.
It seems pretty clear that a lot of those record profits recorded over the years came not only from cut-rate engineering in the transmissions, but from neglected safety engineering as well - and as usual, it's not going to be cheap to fix after the fact.
I wonder just how much of these problems surfaced in Daimler-Benz's due diligence before the merger - and presuming many did not, how news of them might have affected the enthusiasm for the takeover?
#744 of 7485 Eneth & dmatthews
Dec 18, 2001 (3:47 pm)
Well we know both of you own Hondas so you could not at all be biased! Lets get some facts straight. DC reinvented the minivan (VW actually was first) It was built as a TRUCK and is still classified as a TRUCK! Remember all the panel versions running around. The rear hatch latches were built to the government standards that existed at the time they were built. They sold millions of them before the hatch issue came up. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that the last lawsuit for a hatch opening was thrown out because the passenger was not wearing a seat belt. DC was NOT obligated to fix the hatches but did it on a voluntary recall, which cost big bucks. Honda benefited from all the development work DC did and even used the outline of a 96 Grand Caravan in their 99 ads. You have to credit Honda they wait until the see a market opportunity and try to copy (and improve) the best selling US entry. The Acura SUV is another good example of this strategy. Not a bad one I admit, but hardly a pioneering one. As far as fires go you guys never responded to the Honda Odyssey fire article, but are quick to post any negative DC articles. You might not remember but when Honda first introduced the Accord, they had the magic dissapearing front fenders (RUST) that took a few years to admit to. Oh and in regard to the last comparasion. It is the combined opionion of 2 (TWO) newspaper writers, who still preferred the ride and handling of the DC minivan. You should buy what turns you on, as you are the one making the payments.
Dec 18, 2001 (4:57 pm)
So they reinvented the minivan. Does that give them the right to build unsafe vehicles? Honda and their rusty fenders, how about all the original reinvented DC vans with the rusted out rear liftgates. Maybe you don't live where it snows but here in Michigan there are tons of the rusted out vans on the street. Rust is one thing, but fire is another. As far as the fire in the Honda goes, that was just ONE van, hardly the thousands that DC puts on the street year in and year out. If the late made 01's and 02's prove to be a quality built van 5 years down the road, it will be a first. Maybe they can get an OsCar (pun intended) or something for a first.
Dec 18, 2001 (5:18 pm)
According to you the DC designers sit up nights thinking up ways to make the minivans unsafe. GET REAL!
#747 of 7485 overseas "non imports"
Dec 18, 2001 (5:39 pm)
There were a lot of small vans, not just the VW, manufactured prior to the Chrysler "invention". Most of them just weren't imported. Even today, there are a large number that don't come to the US. Chrysler did coin the term "minivan", but that is pretty much the full extent of their ingenuity.
Dec 18, 2001 (7:36 pm)
As the TRUE story stated, the designer of the first DC minivan used to work for FORD and he proposed the concept there. They refused and said it would never sell. He came to DC and they needed help, all they had were "K" cars and he spun one off the FWD "K" platform. 8 Million plus later its still either 1st or 2nd depending on your point of view.