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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans - READ ONLY

7485 messages,  Last post on Mar 23, 2008 at 7:43 AM

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What is this discussion about? Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Van

#7284 of 7485 Re: Odyssey vs. Grand Caravan SXT [sebring95] by shipo Nov 28, 2006 (4:00 am)
Replying to: sebring95 (Nov 27, 2006 8:02 pm) "No, but they tell you a lot. Like, if you're loading the suspension quickly (like you would in an emergency lane change) the stability control equipped models have higher speeds. Higher speeds through a controlled lane change = safer vehicle when an emergency arises."   Sorry, not buying that argument, especially when we're discussing understeer prone FWD minivans. Please point me to a few back to back tests of a FWD vehicle (preferably a minivan) that was able to post better slalom times with a skid control system enabled.   "Oh sure there's a limit, but stability does pickup on steering inputs vs speed/yaw/etc. and if you're asking for more than the vehicle can physically provide it's going to do everything possible (beyond what even an experienced driver) could do in a split second to correct. Maybe a complete knucklehead move can't be fixed by stability control, but can't make the outcome any worse."   That's my point. Once you are into understeer on this type of vehicle there really isn't all that much that can be done from the perspective of a stability control system. If anything you are actually bolstering my argument.   Best Regards, Shipo Replies to this message: sebring95 (Nov 28, 2006 6:50 am) shipo (Nov 28, 2006 7:54 am) sebring95 (Nov 28, 2006 8:43 am)
#7285 of 7485 Re: Maybe I'll split the baby here [thegraduate] by aaron_t Nov 28, 2006 (5:45 am)
Replying to: thegraduate (Nov 27, 2006 11:50 am) 2012, but there is a a phase in period and soem automakers are trying to get 100% stability control before 20012.   Shipo, the air susension is only availible with the $600 towing prep package on DCX vans, as you discovered.
#7286 of 7485 Re: Odyssey vs. Grand Caravan SXT [shipo] by sebring95 Nov 28, 2006 (6:50 am)
Replying to: shipo (Nov 28, 2006 4:00 am) That's my point. Once you are into understeer on this type of vehicle there really isn't all that much that can be done from the perspective of a stability control system. If anything you are actually bolstering my argument.   Understeer, oversteer, doesn't really matter. It's going to detect a steering motion that's not compatible with the direction/speed of the vehicle and brake accordingly. If the vehicle detects understeer, it applies the rear inside brakes which will assist the vehicle turn in the correct direction. Oversteer brakes the outside front wheel. That's pretty simple driver dynamics stuff there, except YOU can't control the brakes on one wheel. Of course as you mentioned, if you're plowing into a turn well beyond reason you're not going to recover. But that's pure stupidity which nothing can help   I can't find the article/story on the slalom test. I believe they were late-model Grand Prix's they were testing and the most obvious difference was when they wet the track. Either way, it's pretty simple that with stability control you can run beyond the capabilities of a normal vehicle so there's no reason you couldn't go quicker through a slalom/emergency maneuver. The non-stability controlled vehicle will spin-out more easily which ends the test. If you're racing on a track, you want the car to work completely differently and disabling stability makes sense. Replies to this message: shipo (Nov 28, 2006 7:54 am) sebring95 (Nov 28, 2006 8:43 am)
#7287 of 7485 Re: Odyssey vs. Grand Caravan SXT [sebring95] by shipo Nov 28, 2006 (7:54 am)
Replying to: sebring95 (Nov 28, 2006 6:50 am) "If the vehicle detects understeer, it applies the rear inside brakes which will assist the vehicle turn in the correct direction."   Is this your rationalization of what you think is going on or do you really know for a fact that braking the inside rear wheel (the wheel that will have the least amount of absolute traction in this scenario) will correct for oversteer? If this is scientific fact, please refer me to your source. Until then I maintain that stability control on a FWD sled like a minivan is a highly questionable option.   Best Regards, Shipo Replies to this message: sebring95 (Nov 28, 2006 8:43 am)
#7288 of 7485 Re: Civic vs Accord and minivan shopping [thegraduate] by hansienna Nov 28, 2006 (7:57 am)
Replying to: thegraduate (Nov 27, 2006 8:08 pm) Do you think your dad will EVER save much money on gasoline with 6 MPG better on the 2007 Civic vs 2005 Accord?      Funny how styling affects us. I DON'T like the Civic design where the windshield is longer than the hood nor do I like the Chrysler 300 where the roof looks like an elephant sat on it and made the side windows too short.        IF I had to sit in any seat other than the driver's seat for any great distance, the Odyssey would be the BEST vehicle for me. Since I do most of the driving, the compass/outside temperature and trip computer information is very important (but probably a distraction) and the driver's seat of our 2006 Sienna LE is as comfortable as any driver's seat.      I got a back ache while riding in the 2nd row seat of the Sienna for a couple of hours last August while our daughter drove. The 2002 T&C LX 2nd row seats never caused the bach ache for a longer period of time.      Test drives are never long enough to find the dislikes of any vehicle. I do NOT like the shiny circles around the speedometer, tachometer, etc. in the Sienna instrument cluster and I HATE the shiny surfaces in the middle of the Sienna dash. On the other hand, I never did like the white faced instruments of the 02 T&C LX. Replies to this message: thegraduate (Nov 28, 2006 9:57 am)
#7289 of 7485 Re: Just checking... [cpsdarren] by cableguy06 Nov 28, 2006 (8:36 am)
Replying to: cpsdarren (Nov 27, 2006 6:24 pm) Complete ground-up design. Has very little similarities with the older generation that ended with the 2005 model year change.
#7290 of 7485 Re: Odyssey vs. Grand Caravan SXT [shipo] by sebring95 Nov 28, 2006 (8:43 am)
Replying to: shipo (Nov 28, 2006 7:54 am) Is this your rationalization of what you think is going on or do you really know for a fact that braking the inside rear wheel (the wheel that will have the least amount of absolute traction in this scenario) will correct for oversteer? If this is scientific fact, please refer me to your source. Until then I maintain that stability control on a FWD sled like a minivan is a highly questionable option.   You can google stability control and get as much information and technical specs as you want. The way I explained it is how (in a very basic situation such as understeer/oversteer) stability will correct actions. Keep in mind stability works BEFORE you go clear into full-blown understeer, so it's a HUGE advantage for a FWD sled like a minivan. Now if you want to throw in an emergency lane change with two wheels ending up in loose gravel on the berm....then it's a little more challenging. Even with my experience driving race cars, I won't buy a truck/suv/minivan without stability these days. I won't say that about a car, but if it's an option I'll take it.
#7291 of 7485 Re: Civic vs Accord and minivan shopping [hansienna] by thegraduate Nov 28, 2006 (9:57 am)
Replying to: hansienna (Nov 28, 2006 7:57 am) **Skip this post unless you are Hansienna; this is off topic**   Well, considering he drives about 30-35k miles a year (he bought his current 05 Accord Dec of 2004 and has 68,000 miles on it now) , 6 MPG over 2 years will add up to be as important as the drop in car payment (going down about $50 a month).   The Civic sedan isn't my favorite style, but I do love the coupe's look.   If dad drives 3,000 miles a month, and gets approx. the city estimate (as he does now in the Accord - 24 MPG) he will use 100 gallons of gas, vs. 125 gallons in the Accord. With summer prices around $2.90 and prices in winter hovering at $2.15 here, we'll say $2.50 a gallon for average. 25 gallons a month at $2.50 a gallon is $62.50 a month. (Say $60 for numbers' sake). $60 a month is $720 a year; or you could say the gas savings is going to pay our cell-phone bill from now on. With the $50 payment drop, and the $60 gas drop, he's going to be shelling out over $100 less per month on driving.   The real question is now how his insurance rates will change.   This is off topic, but we can carry on in the Civic forum if ya want. Sorry to everyone else who can care less about the Civic. I'm through
#7292 of 7485 I liked by fezo Nov 28, 2006 (11:34 am)
Hansienna's magic minivan! Especially the part about putting a DC stereo in an Ody. Honda does many things right. Sound is not one of them. Replies to this message: mrblonde49 (Nov 28, 2006 12:14 pm)
#7293 of 7485 Re: I liked [fezo] by mrblonde49 Nov 28, 2006 (12:14 pm)
Replying to: fezo (Nov 28, 2006 11:34 am) Hansienna's magic minivan! Especially the part about putting a DC stereo in an Ody. Honda does many things right. Sound is not one of them. "   My brother just got an Entourage Limited with the Entertainment package (13 speaker Infinity). Best in-car sound I've personally heard without going aftermarket.   I like the van a lot, waiting to see if they have some better incentives coming - was there Saturday and it's not worth it for me to make the switch yet

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