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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans - READ ONLY

7485 messages,  Last post on Mar 23, 2008 at 8:43 AM

You are in the Honda Odyssey Forum.

What is this discussion about? Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Van

Messages Page 716 of 749

#7146 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [dc_driver] by socalawd

Jun 09, 2006 (2:57 pm)

Replying to: dc_driver (Jun 08, 2006 8:26 pm)
Our 2005 reliability survey, the largest of its kind, reached a milestone this year—we've gathered responses on more than 1 million vehicles from Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org subscribers, the most we've ever received."
  
"MINIVANS
  
The Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan dropped to below average in reliability, losing their recommendation. The Toyota Sienna is the only minivan that rates better than average. GM's minivans—the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6, and Saturn Relay—joined the Nissan Quest at the bottom of the list. "
  
The Odyssey got an "average" rating for reliability, but I think this is not too bad considering the 05 was a brand new generation model.
 
Well with the grouping that CR has the difference between average and just below average is probably hard to distinguish. Boy would I love it if they gave you better info. Amount of cars in survey, specific problems and mileage driven per car,etc,etc. But I guess they think were too dumb for that. Just give them the circles(Only 5 ratings) and they'll be happy LOL!

#7147 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [dc_driver] by dustyk

Jun 10, 2006 (11:34 am)

Replying to: dc_driver (Jun 08, 2006 8:26 pm)
I agree with you in the hypocrisy of those that attack CR for criticizing a persons favorite model or brand, but praise them when the comments are favorable.
 
The fact remains, however, that good or bad CRs so-called "reliability" data has more holes than a ton of swiss cheese, relegating their sophomoric system to "much worse than average."
 
For all we know either the Honda, Dodge, or any other model missed the next higher gate by a factor of .001. Even a factor of one (1.0) would be statistically insignificant.
 
Dusty

#7148 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [dustyk] by marine2

Jun 10, 2006 (8:14 pm)

Replying to: dustyk (Jun 10, 2006 11:34 am)
I agree dustyk, I just took my van in last week for a recall. The recall was for a possible pinched line. I had it done when having the oil changed. To some, it's wow, Chrysler had a recall. It could be judged as something big, when in reality, it probably means only taking a clamp loose and straitening out the line and putting back the clamp. But could something like that go against Chrysler? Sure it could. C.M. doesn't tell enough about what goes wrong to make a judgment.
 
I remember one guy on here complain his battery went out and his van was only three years old. That really ticked him off and he blamed the van manufacture. Another complained his tires wore out in only 40,000 miles. Again, he was made as heck. How do people like this fill out their forms that CR sends them? How do I know really what to look for when judging a vehicle rated by CR or any other rating service?
 
There is a guy that has gone around to many of these auto sights and is starting up his own rating service. He said it will be much fairer the CR and some others. He wants people to E-mail in each week if you have had to take your vehicle in for any repairs or recalls in the month before. Wants to know how long they kept it. Now he doesn't want to know if you take it in for regular service like oil change, replacement of any normal wear or tear item such as replacing tires, batteries, belts, hoses or wipers. But I had to list mine as a recall for a possible pinched hose because it was a recall, where under his own guidelines, this would be considered a wear item and need not be reported. Anyone looking at reliability, is only going to see that Chrysler had a recall on that year van, not knowing what was done. In 17 months, that has been the only time anything but reg. maintenance has been done to it.

#7149 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [dustyk] by cpsdarren

Jun 11, 2006 (7:41 am)

Replying to: dustyk (Jun 10, 2006 11:34 am)
"I agree with you in the hypocrisy of those that attack CR for criticizing a persons favorite model or brand, but praise them when the comments are favorable. "
 
Even more amusing are those who tout the superiority of their vehicle/brand because of the colored circles in CR, but then criticize when they discover what the differences really are between the colored circles.
 
CR is what it is. I subscribe, but I don't put blind faith into their reliability surveys or subjective comments. On the other hand, I do trust that their more objective measurements (acceleration, braking, dimensions, fuel economy, etc) are pretty consistent.
 
"The fact remains, however, that good or bad CRs so-called "reliability" data has more holes than a ton of swiss cheese, relegating their sophomoric system to "much worse than average."
  
For all we know either the Honda, Dodge, or any other model missed the next higher gate by a factor of .001. Even a factor of one (1.0) would be statistically insignificant. "
 
Good point. If you dig through back issues and their online system, you can actually find enough data to get an estimate of the absolute problem rate over a period of years. Even for two vehicles at the center of adjacent categories, the numbers aren't much different. For example, the difference between the 2005 Odyssey and 2005 Grand Caravan 2WD amounts to maybe one more problem over 5 years and about a couple more over 8 years. There's no way to tell how accurate the numbers are or the liklihood of getting a real lemon, though, because CR doesn't provide any statistical information like margins of error, standard deviations or even the number of samples.
 
The only category that would probably be a concern is the full black "Much Worse Than Average" category, because it has no lower bound. The Nissan Quest is significantly below average according to CR, for example. That is much lower than Chrysler, Ford or Honda vans, which are all pretty similar, in my opinion. Granted, CR also doesn't tell us if that extra problem or two means a huge amount of time in the shop or significant out-of-pocket expense.

#7150 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [marine2] by cpsdarren

Jun 11, 2006 (7:43 am)

Replying to: marine2 (Jun 10, 2006 8:14 pm)
"There is a guy that has gone around to many of these auto sights and is starting up his own rating service. He said it will be much fairer the CR and some others."
 
He's a smart guy with a lot of experience in the area. His system will indeed be much fairer, if he can get a high enough participation rate. The site is www.truedelta.com . He also has some good commentaries on CR's methods in their reliability surveys.

#7151 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [cpsdarren] by marine2

Jun 11, 2006 (12:12 pm)

Replying to: cpsdarren (Jun 11, 2006 7:43 am)
He's a smart guy with a lot of experience in the area. His system will indeed be much fairer, if he can get a high enough participation rate. The site is www.truedelta.com . He also has some good commentaries on CR's methods in their reliability surveys.
 
I agree, I do think it will be fairer, but do you see what I was saying about my recall? I don't know if they straitened the hose, or just eye balled it and saw there was no crimp. But it will go down as a recall without knowing what it was recalled for. Under normal condtions, it wouldn't have to be reported at all, as it was a wear item, like wipper blades

#7152 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [marine2] by cpsdarren

Jun 11, 2006 (1:12 pm)

Replying to: marine2 (Jun 11, 2006 12:12 pm)
I guess that comes down to how much a visit to the dealer bugs each respondent. If the rules are clearly detailed, at least it will be consistent, even if some don't think it is fair.
 
The problem comes when you leave it vague and tell people to report only "serious problems". I might think having a recall done at the time of a routine oil change isn't a serious problem. I may think new front brakes at 35,000 miles aren't a serious problem. I may think a lone one-hour trip to the dealer to reset a warning light and replace a PCV valce isn't serious. Someone else might find those all to be serious problems. That alone causes some errors in the survey. It gets multiplied if there is a pattern of such reporting differences caused by editorial bias.
 
I know some Honda owners who say their Hondas are bulletproof, yet dismiss their trips into dealers for recalls and warranty repairs as part of ownership. On the other hand, it seems like owners of domestics that I know will discuss any little issue that required a dealer visit. Does an editorial bias cause this type of reporting error in CR? Who knows...

#7153 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [cpsdarren] by dc_driver

Jun 11, 2006 (1:43 pm)

Replying to: cpsdarren (Jun 11, 2006 1:12 pm)
I do agree with many of your points, but all I know is that, based on my experiences, CR data tends to be fairly accurate.
 
Case in point, I have owned three problematic vehicles (the worst being a 1999 VW Jetta VR6 which was probably considered a lemon). All three of those vehicles were not recommended by CR and all three received the worst rating for reliability.
 
That does not mean that if I went out and bought a Toyota Camry I will not have problems. Based on the eleven vehicles that I have owned, all vehicles have some problems, some just have more than others.

#7154 of 7485 Re: New JD Power Initial Quality Survey [dc_driver] by marine2

Jun 11, 2006 (8:55 pm)

Replying to: dc_driver (Jun 11, 2006 1:43 pm)
That does not mean that if I went out and bought a Toyota Camry I will not have problems. Based on the eleven vehicles that I have owned, all vehicles have some problems, some just have more than others.
 
Competition has made these vehicles better than ever. I remember the junk the big three tried to shove down our throats back in the 70-80s.

#7155 of 7485 Ody Vs T&C by fish8

Jun 12, 2006 (5:52 am)

This is only my opinion....
 
A good friend of mine recently bought a used (18,000 miles) 2006 Honda Odyssey. Prior to this purchase I had never driven in a new model Ody. My opinion, after riding in the van, was that the interior of the Ody was MUCH nicer than my Wife's 2005 Town & Country Touring. The interior feels of a better quality, the controls are clear and feel great to the touch. The speedometer and tachometer look GREAT. You can tell that the T&C was designed (for the most part) many years back and the Odyssey is a newer, more modern minivan.
 
I love our T&C and am glad we bought it. But, IMHO, the Odyssey looks like a better (read: better built) van.
 
BUT, when I asked my friend for specifics on his van they were: 2006 Honda Odyssey EX w/ cloth seats, power side doors (no power lift gate). All this for $25,000 + Tax Tag Title.
 
Our 2005 T&C Touring was bought brand new w/ leather interior, power side and rear liftgate, 6 disc DVD entertainment system, sirius satellite, stow & Go (of course and side airbags . We paid $23,700 + Tax, tag and Title.
 
Now, which is the better deal? I think the T&C is a better deal FOR MY FAMILY. If the extra money was not an object, I probably would of bought a new Sienna. But, my friend thought the Ody was a better value for his family. He actually is planning on getting aftermarket leather put in his van by the end of the year. So that will add another $1300 to the price. Which will last longer? I'm not sure but the Honda will most likely outlast our Chrysler product (just going by what the surveys say ).

Messages Page 716 of 749

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