Last post on Mar 23, 2008 at 7:43 AM
You are in the Honda Odyssey
What is this discussion about?
Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Van
#5392 of 7485 Re: 3.3L Grand Caravan is a Flex Fuel Vehicle !! [hrao]
Dec 04, 2005 (8:13 pm)
Dodge Caravan 2WD
E85**13**17**$2142**7.2 ($2000 tax credit)
Honda Odyssey 2WD VCM,
Honda Odyssey 2WD
Is 7.2 smaller than 8.9
Where did you get this info. The greenhouse gas scores for odyssey are a 6 and for ethanol 3.3l it's a 4. Look here for Ethanol 3.3l
Wow look at that gas milage 13/19 compared to 17/26 for regular gas. Wow it looks like no bargain!
Here's the odyssey
There are now 7 E85 stations where I live and its not a problem for me to fill it up.
Hybrid - Still uses gas
Oil rich kingdoms get rich of that money
and Exxon executives
E85 helps farmers who grow Corn
15% is still petrol and guess what alot of Ethanol is imported(its easier to get from sugar cane than corn)! Most of the stuff that comes from here is goverment subsidized and don't get me started on that kind of stuff. There are NO gas stations where I live CA. It is funny that you went from no pollution to 7.2 is better than 8.3!
#5393 of 7485 Re: 3.3L Grand Caravan is a Flex Fuel Vehicle !! [hansienna]
Dec 04, 2005 (8:18 pm)
If Honda can develop a Flex Fuel Odyssey, we will read that flex fuel is the best thing in minivans since the "Magic Seat".
Hey find me a E85 gas station! If you can't get it it's useless. BTW I had a FFV for 50 months.
Hey there's 3 stations in cali. Check this web site out to find a station near you!But only one in El Cajon is public!
I do think CA should get away from MTBE and go to a E10. Which would run in our present cars.
#5394 of 7485 Re: Hey look at this Longterm test in!! [dennisctc]
Dec 04, 2005 (9:51 pm)
As the owner of a 2005 Dodge GC, let me say this. If money were no object and I didn't haul around a bunch of young kids, I think the Ody would be a great choice. It's much nicer inside and it is dependable.
But I think if money is a factor and you have young kids, you can't go wrong with the Dodge/Chrysler. Even though the inside is not quite as nice as the Ody, it is more kid proof and just as dependable. Plus you have two great storage compartments that will hold gobs of toys, diaper bags or whatever, and still keep your van looking neat and clean. Also with the price difference between the two, your able to get the extras that make your van that much nicer to live with. Like power rear hatch, DVD player, over head computer and still have the 7/70 extended warrantee for peace of mind.
I have always looked at the two vans as having different jobs. I see the Honda as a great looking, dependable people hauler. I see the Dodge/Chrysler as a great family van. Perfect for hauling kids and all their stuff, or loading it down at Home Depot.
I think when comparing the two vans to buy, you need to ask yourself what your going to use it for.
#5396 of 7485 Re: Hey look at this Longterm test in!! [marine2]
Dec 04, 2005 (10:00 pm)
But I think if money is a factor and you have young kids, you can't go wrong with the Dodge/Chrysler. Even though the inside is not quite as nice as the Ody, it is more kid proof and just as dependable. Plus you have two great storage compartments that will hold gobs of toys, diaper bags or whatever, and still keep your van looking neat and clean.
I think the DGC is a good value for the money and vans are more useful/safer(from driver death perspective) than SUV and most cars. I don't really think dependability should be a issue with ethier van.
. I see the Honda as a great looking, dependable people hauler. I see the Dodge/Chrysler as a great family van. Perfect for hauling kids and all their stuff, or loading it down at Home Depot.
I liked some of the safety gear and it was more comfortable for me in the Honda.
I think when comparing the two vans to buy, you need to ask yourself what your going to use it for.
I won't be using my honda for Home depot runs. I got a 6 year old Subie wagon and my Bro's truck for that! But if you want something for all that stuff and care very little about VSC. The DGC is a great choice. BTW marine good to see ya back in the forum!
#5397 of 7485 Re: Hey look at this Longterm test in!! [socalawd]
Dec 04, 2005 (10:48 pm)
Thanks for the welcome back socalawd.
I had a nice club cab truck, but found it lacking, picking up three grandkids from school. When stow-n-go came out, I figured I could haul with the Dodge van, almost all the stuff I was hauling in my truck. Plus it gave me so much more room for the kids than what I had with the truck. Keeping one seat stowed, seemed to give me lots of room to set stuff in the side door, get the kids in and out fast and still have one big covered storage compartment under the other seat that I could hide stuff, like battery cables, tools, flashlight,can of instant flat and a furnitue pad. In the truck, all that layed out in the open, behind the front seat.
I like the Ody a lot and think the inside looks just beautiful. But I can just about imagine how it would look two or three years down the road with those kids and the stuff I haul. Hard plastic can take a beating and still look new if not skuffed. Cloth looks nicer but won't take a beating. For me, seats that fold flat is much nicer than having to lift them out. Which is why I never bought a minivan before.I have helped take my brother's seats out on his 2002 minivan and didn't like it one bit. They were really heavy.
I would have liked to have kepted the truck but my wife won't drive it and she won't even try and drive the minivan. Says they're both to big, which is why our second vehicle is a Civic.
Anyway, that's the reason I chose the Dodge over the Ody.I needed a family friendly minivan and not a nice people hauler.
#5398 of 7485 Re: 3.3L Grand Caravan is a Flex Fuel Vehicle !! [socalawd]
Dec 05, 2005 (7:44 am)
Ethanol is 30cents cheeper per gallon, that compensates for low Mileage and you get a $2000 tax credit, do your math.
Yes, I stand corrected - Less Pollution
E85 Caravan 7.2 Tons of Greenhouse gases yer pear
Honda 8.9 Tons of Greenhouse gases per year
and the information is on
#5399 of 7485 Re: 3.3L Grand Caravan is a Flex Fuel Vehicle !! [hrao]
Dec 05, 2005 (7:55 am)
Two things here:
1. Your math still doesn't work if you use the EPA numbers listed above over 15,000 miles AND assume your $.30/gallon number is correct. At $1.65 vs $1.95 (current here) you're still spending $375 more per year on E85.
2. The Caravan does not qualify for the clean fuel vehicle deduction. You can deduct the incremental cost of ADDING clean-fuel equipment to your vehicle (there's no additional cost for flex-fuel vehicles sold by Dodge, Chevy, Ford, etc.). If they charged extra for the flex-fuel engine, then you could take the deduction for the amount, upt $2,000. Right now, there are only five vehicles that qualify for the deduction because Honda/Toyota/Ford has had them certified by the IRS that they have $2,000 in incremental cost in their selling price.
Here's a linky for you....http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=107766,00.html
Pay attention to the next to last paragraph.
#5400 of 7485 Re: 3.3L Grand Caravan is a Flex Fuel Vehicle !! [sebring95]
Dec 05, 2005 (11:54 am)
I call IRS last month, they confirmed me that Ethanol vehicles are clean Fuel Vehicles and anyone who buys a Ethanol Flex Fuel Vehicle is eligible for the tax break.
Consumers purchasing a new clean-fuel vehicle by the end of 2005 may be eligible for a one-time "Clean-Fuel" vehicle tax deduction of up to $2,000! This also applies to gasoline-electric hybrids.
NOTICE: New legislation has changed the tax incentives for clean-fuel vehicles. Clean-fuel vehicles placed in service by December 31, 2005 are still eligible for the tax incentives described on this page. Those placed in service after this date will no longer be eligible for these deductions but may be eligible for a federal income tax credit under new legislation. Watch this page for updated tax credit information as it becomes available.
What are clean-fuel vehicles?
The U.S. federal tax code defines "clean-fuel" vehicles as motor vehicles designed to be propelled by one of the following fuels:
Liquified natural gas (LNG)
Liquified petroleum gas (LPG)
Electricity (e.g., some gasoline/electric hybrids)
Any other fuel that is at least 85% alcohol or ether (e.g., E85)
Refer to IRS publication 535
Tax laws have changed, a new law was just signed by Bush, but the tax incentives are better in 2006 than in 2005
#5401 of 7485 Re: 3.3L Grand Caravan is a Flex Fuel Vehicle !! [hrao]
Dec 05, 2005 (12:33 pm)
Your IRS link pretty much sums up what I said above. Clean fuel vehicles are either one of the certified hybrids, or a vehicle that has had the equipment added. You can deduct the cost of this added equipment. The current flex-fuel vehicle have no additional cost to you, the consumer/taxpayer and therefore you have no expenses to deduct.
From your link:
The deduction is equal to the cost of the vehicle's engine, the equipment used to store or deliver the fuel, and the equipment used to exhaust combusted gases, up to a maximum of $2,000 for vehicles places in service by the end of 2005.
For vehicles that may be propelled by both a clean-burning fuel and any other fuel, the deduction is limited to the additional cost of permitting the use of the clean-burning fuel, with the same maximum deductions detailed above.
If you were to take a normal old Caravan/Odyssey and pay someone (tons of money) to convert it to run on E85, then you could take the deduction, upto $2,000 currently.
Calling the IRS for tax advice is entertaining at best. If you recorded the conversation and documented the call, you might have a chance in an audit situation. Otherwise, the information they give out is usually worth what you pay for it. A little research and reading will give you far more accurate information, as well as documentation to back it up. I had a flex-fuel Chevy Tahoe. Even with the law changes it's not deductible. Plus it was a horrible vehicle to drive on E85. Most of the changes to the tax law for next year gave credits to producers of ethanol/bio type fuels. Bio-diesel has more potential than E85 IMHO.