Last post on Mar 23, 2008 at 7:43 AM
You are in the Honda Odyssey
What is this discussion about?
Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Van
#2195 of 7485 Bdaddy you still don't get it
Jan 02, 2003 (9:01 pm)
First Re-read posts 2157 and 2183. Then count to 10. Examples "DC still using an antiquated suspension component"(but according to Edmunds still rides better than Odyssey)"Many states passed along subsidies and tax breaks for AMC and Chrysler.Lots got flushed in the deal" (And Honda didn't get any Tax breaks from Carolina and Canada to build their plants there?) Get real! Hey I'm not faulting you for buying the van of your choice. I've driven all the minivans, including the Odyssey and Kia Sedona. I'm still happy with my first year model 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan ES and haven't had any problems or seen or driven anything that has something I feel I want or need yet. No, I don't work for DC or any dealers. P.S. I'm 6'4" and don't come anywhere near hitting my head on any part of the roof or door in the drivers seat of my 96. However, I did hit the rear door mechanism in the roof sitting in the passenger seat on a 94 model without a adjustble passenger seat. That one had only one rear sliding door. No such problem on the 96 and newer.
Jan 02, 2003 (10:04 pm)
You hit it spot-on in your comparison of the Ody/DC vans. Our '00 Ody was totaled last April (hit by an uninsured idiot while parked at my in-laws), and we were originally going to buy an '02 EX w/leather, but guess what??? Here in southern Calif., Honda dealers were still demanding MSRP + at least 1K worth of added-on krap - just like when we bought our '00.
My wife and I were quite impressed with the most recent iteration of DC minis. As you pointed out, the Ody does indeed excell in several areas (noteably handling, engine performance and interior ergonomics), but the DC surpasses the Ody in overall smoothness/ride and luxury features. I also found the front seats in the DC (at least in the T&C Limited) to be more comfortable than those in the Ody, by a small margin.
The clincher, however, was The Deal. The Chrysler dealership we visited had several new '02 T&C Limiteds for $8K off MSRP ($5.5K dealer discount + $2.5K customer cash). The final net deal worked out to almost $2K less than a comparably equipped Ody. The DC dealer also gave us 4.9% financing for 60 months. That was pretty much the icing on the cake for our deal. My wife also got to choose the exact color she wanted. The dealer's sales staff were also very pleasant and didn't pressure us to buy on-the-spot, but we did anyway. It just seemed like too good of a deal to pass up.
Nine months and 11K miles later, we are still very happy with the T&C - no problems yet (knock on wood). I am not trying to say, however, that the DC van is necessarilly better than the Ody. Having been on both sides of the fence now, I don't consider myself loyal to either one. They're both nice people/stuff movers, which is why people buy minivans - certainly not to impress the neighbors.
One thing I do miss about the Ody, however, is that absolutely dandy v-tech engine. It would wind right up to the redline and still sound as smooth as velvet. The DC 3.8 pushrod motor has a bit more bottom-end thrust, but it scolds you (loudly, I might add) if you go beyond 5,000 RPM.
But then, I guess only an idiot would try to redline a minivan, huh? (P.S., my wife usually drives the van. My own personal car is a Pontiac Vibe GT with a six-speed - and it gets redlined every time I drive it!).
Jan 03, 2003 (5:03 am)
interesting dialog about the two vehicles. however, living in buffalo, ny i want a great snow vehicle. my mazda tribute is super in the snow but too darn small. to the best of my knowledge, only mini with awd is the dc . haven't read all 2000+ postings but wonder how many go for the dc awd because honda doesn't have it?
#2198 of 7485 Agree with dkrab
Jan 03, 2003 (7:49 am)
Jeez, now the minivan wars have become political fodder... Let's agree that Uncle Lido was the salesman of the millennium in convincing the US Govt. to bail out his moribund company and leave it at that!
Honda and DC both make a great van. Ford, Toyota, GM, not even close. We chose the Dodge on the basis of equipment levels, pricing, availability and driving feel. The 15 minutes spent in the Honda were not enough to convince me it was worth the 3k more and surly, arrogant dealer who had 1 in stock with $2800 in stupid add-on equipment.
So far, our 2001 GC ES has been very satisfying. Everytime I remove those 3rd row seats to carry something I wish I had the Honda, but never any other time. As far as comparing with BMW, it's apples to oranges. However I do own a '00 740iL so I feel qualified to make the comparison. Where it counts (on the road), the DCV vans are not disappointing. We regularly drive 600 mile days, all interstate, from Atlanta to S. Florida. 2 kids, 2 (heavy) adults and a full load. The Dodge maintains 80+ mph at 21 mpg with the (great) A/C going full blast. It has never felt unstable or less than confident on the road. I can honestly say every time I make that trip in it, I am impressed by it's capabilities. I'm sure the Honda is equally capable.
When the time comes to trade it in, I'm sure I'll longingly think of the Ody's resale. However knowing the Dodge cost me almost 3k less up front and nothing to own in 2 yes and 30k, I assume I'll get over the 2k or so difference.
Overall, both vans are head and shoulders above the competition. The new Toyota will be interesting, however this will be their 4th design of their people mover and they haven't come close yet. Ford may get it right as they seem to have a grasp of the US market now, we'll have to see about the quality. The GM vans are not scheduled for replacement anytime soon so we're stuck with the Euro-American compromise of the current Opel-based Venture/Montana platform.
My 2 cents...
Jan 03, 2003 (8:53 am)
AWD was a big selling point for me larry. Of course it never snows here (Denver) anymore, but at the time I thought it would be useful! But the biggest clinchers were 1) the power liftgate (my wife is all of 5') and 2) SHE liked the looks of the T&C. Never argue with the wife, especially if it's her wheels.
BTW -- the few times it has snowed the T&C AWD performed fabulously. And she really appreciated the heat grid in the windshield below the wipers, wish I had that on my X5.
#2200 of 7485 I Get It Dan!!
Jan 03, 2003 (10:22 am)
"DC still using an antiquated suspension component"(but according to Edmunds still rides better than Odyssey)"
Maybe it rides better, if you prefer the ride of the DC. Is it antiquated - yes, therefore, statement true.
I'll leave the discussion on government bail-outs for another thread. I'm still waiting to hear about all of my inaccuracies. I expected a list of at least 10 or 12 considering I've been posting in this thread for over a year. What is my "inaccuracy percentage" in your book - like .005%?
I'll end this discussion by saying you're right - you're always right and I bow to your knowledge and expertise. I (we) are all lucky to have you here with us. DC is the best MV out there. If Edmunds says it, it must be so. (I don't remember where they said that but if you insist, it must be so.)
"So it is written, so it is done."
B-Daddy - Newly appointed, official Town Hall post accuracy checker.
#2201 of 7485 Also DC Mini's available in two sizes
Jan 03, 2003 (10:32 am)
For those who don't want the extra bulk of the Ody and the Grand Caravan/Town and Country, GC still is, I believe, the only manufacturer to offer short wheel base versions. My wife really preferred the much shorter length and resulting manueverability of the Caravan, and it still can seat 7 in reasonable comfort.
We have managed to do well with the short wheel base Caravans for, believe it or not 18 years and counting, including being on our 6th straight year and counting of moving two college students in succession into and out of dorms and apartments. Our first was an '85. Our second is a '96 SE Sport and currently is at 64,000 miles, with only one repair, to the AC, last summer. Yes it was an expensive repair, but we have never had it back for anything else except two minor recalls, and the normal maintenance services. The brakes are even still original and are good for at least another year. Van is smooth and quiet as the day we drove it home and when freshly washed, looks nearly new as well. Hard to beat, and you could get a new replacement Caravan similar to ours for well under $20k.
Jan 04, 2003 (11:02 pm)
Heh, and I thought my Quest was suffering in the ground clearance department.
I read that DC has a "surfer" version that's at the car shows now.
#2204 of 7485 Chrysler bailout
Jan 05, 2003 (9:44 am)
1. The government never loaned Chrysler anything. The banks loaned Chrysler the money with guarantees from the govenment
2. The loans were paid back two years early.
3. As part of the deal, the government required Chyrsler to throw in a large block of stock which at the time was almost worthless. Because of the success of the K car, the stock soared and the treasury department sold the stock for a gain of $275 million dollars. As a taxpayer, I wish we could have more bailouts like that.
4. As a previous poster said, let us not go down the tax incentive path. The state governments have now given Japanese car builders billions in tax credits.