Last post on Mar 23, 2008 at 7:43 AM
You are in the Honda Odyssey
What is this discussion about?
Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Van
#1330 of 7485 leather seating
Jun 06, 2002 (4:43 pm)
hersbird, I totally agree that both vans are great in their own respects. And I too first engaged in these discussions after seeing how many Honda Odyssey owners here trashed DC vans and made them seem like worthless pieces of garbage But I also realize the Honda Odyssey is far from perfect in the areas of reliability (for a Honda), comfort, and convienence at least when compared to the competition, namely the Town & Country. In fact, if I had to buy a van and Chrysler did not exist, the Odyssey would be the only viable alternative for me.
This is not to say DC minivans are perfect, as I've said many times in the past. They have a troubled reliability and safety history which some might find concerning. Although I have tried to show that they are improving in both of those areas.
dmathews, when I say the Town & Country Limited is covered in leather, I am not exaggerating. Not only does it have leather on the seats, doors, and side panels but it also has suede accents as well. None of which were offered on the 2001 Honda Odyssey and in some cases aren't even offered on the 2002 model. And on a personal note, I would much rather have factory leather installed than your after market leather, which in the case of paying 1600 dollars as you did is more expensive than it would be to get it stock on a Dodge Grand Caravan.
The leather package on the Grand Caravan EX includes heated leather seating, leather wrapped steering wheel, and steering wheel audio controls all for 1,060. And as hersbird has pointed out, your after market leather won't do much to your vans resale value.
#1331 of 7485 I guess T & C owners
Jun 07, 2002 (3:25 am)
know a lot about no value at resale.
#1332 of 7485 I guess T & C owners by odd1
Jun 07, 2002 (5:24 am)
Amen! At least all I have to worry about is the little bit I may or may not lose on my aftermarket leather when the DC people have to worry about all the big bucks they lose on their van, or they have to drive it into the ground since they won't get much out of it at trade. Then again running it into the ground will come a whole lot sooner than in an Odyssey. Hey, maybe thats why DC sells so many vans, everybody has to buy two to last as long as one Odyssey.
#1333 of 7485 A little about Resale
Jun 07, 2002 (7:00 am)
MSRP of a Town & Country Limited - $36,850
Residual after 36 months - 42% - $15,445
Money lost from MSRP after 36 mo. - $21,330
MSRP of a Honda Odyssey EX-L - $28,710
Residual after 36 months - 56 % - $16,078
Money lost from MSRP after 36 mo. - $12,632
Clearly from MSRP, the Odyssey beats the Chrysler, almost by $10,000!
But wait a second, people don't buy Town & Country Limiteds for sticker price. They can buy them for $30,600 like in all the news paper ads I see. Hmmmmm, lets recaluclate this...
Haggled price of T&C LTD - $30,600
Residual after 36 mo. - 50% - $15,445
Money lost after 36 mo. - $15,115
Real comparisons shows the Odyssey still beats the Chrysler by $2,813 in the residual department and about $500 in the price you can buy it department. Does that make the T&C an awful value, though? No, because it does also come with features that aren't available on the Odyssey.
Does the Odyssey have great reasle? You bet, and from MSRP! But is the T&C THAT awful? No, from a haggled price, it's okay; not great, but not the $20,000 people make it seem like you lose.
#1334 of 7485 DC Bashing
Jun 07, 2002 (9:21 am)
Never owned a Dodge/Chrysler though I have driven quite a few (rentals, fleet cars, test drives, etc.) Would I ever buy one? Sure, if I was in the market for a Viper or a 68 GTX or Road Runner (make mine a Hemi please!). Of the DCs I've driven the 80's and early to mid 90s were &*% boxes. They have since make great strides in quality but IMO still fall short of Honda and Toyota in terms of reliability. Time will tell with the newer models. As for DC bashing before Honda Odysseys were even popular, I speculate that the people doing the bashing have had their tastes soured on U.S built autos, in which case it will take a lot for them to come around again. Honda and Toyota Corp. make approximately $3,000 on average, for every vehicle they sell. That's an average and it certainly doesn't always hold. It is also profit for the corporation, not the dealers. DC and other U.S. auto makers (I'll call DC a U.S. auto maker for now I guess) in some cases make zero profit on their vehicles. That's due to all of the customer incentives they need to pay out in order to make themselves competitive in the eyes of the consumer. How long do you think that can last? I sincerely hope that somewhere along the way, the U.S. auto makers figure it out. If they don't we'll have a lot more to worry about than who makes the best minivan!
#1335 of 7485 I guess T & C owners by odd1 by dmathews3
Jun 07, 2002 (10:11 am)
dmathews, you can't be serious here! I see many DC vans on the road that are 10+ years old & have YET to see a 20 year old Odyssey! Seriously though, even though DC's reliability in the past has been less than stellar, any assumptions on the Oddysey's long term reliability is purely based on speculation and on Honda's reputation. The Odyssey is already showing that it is not up to Honda's record of quality, who knows what the future holds?
#1336 of 7485 muntzmi
Jun 07, 2002 (1:17 pm)
You are right about the unproven track record. I guess it is a good thing DC vans left the bar so extremely low.
#1337 of 7485 How low can you go?
Jun 07, 2002 (4:37 pm)
You want to talk about lowering the bar? Honda certainly did just that with the Odyssey. Take a nice long visit to "Honda Odyssey Problems." The posts on that message board speak for themselves.
#1338 of 7485 How low can you go? by 4aodge
Jun 07, 2002 (5:27 pm)
Before you throw any stones, please step out of your glass house. Look at the DC boards. Gee, even a separate group on the great wonderful lemon of a transmission. Or the many other DC van boards that get plenty of complaints. But then again DC has the board so low an ant couldn't crawl under it.
#1339 of 7485 Look who is talking!
Jun 07, 2002 (7:08 pm)
Plenty of complaints? The Chrysler problems and transmission boards haven't received posts in a number of days. Even then, most of the problems being discussed are how much is paying too much for a DC minivan. Hardly what I would call serious problems. Meanwhile, Odyssey owners are dealing with chronic alignment problems, transmission failures in 99 through 01 models, rattles, squeaks, and malfunctioning power sliding doors.
And that great wonderful lemon of a transmission out performed the Odyssey's in the last comparison test. Can anyone say downshift? I know Edmunds, Car and Driver, and Motor Trend can.