Last post on Mar 23, 2008 at 8:43 AM
You are in the Honda Odyssey
What is this discussion about?
Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Van
Jun 06, 2002 (11:20 am)
You are really going to rely on Edmunds most wanted poll to determine that Honda would outsell Chrysler if it could produce more vans? You Honda people are more desperate than I thought. First of all, you have to think about demographics and who comes to the site. Most of the people who come here, based on Town Hall, are Honda Odyssey owners. Far less than 5k people voted for their favorite minivan, which isn't a big number by any means. At least not a number representative of the major public.
Even Edmunds said themselves that this poll is representative of their own VISITORS. And not the public at large. And as we all know, visitors to Edmunds.com are overwhelmed with reviews saying how great the Odyssey is and how it "trounces its laurels." Whatever. Too many people buy other vans are totally happy with them for that statement to be true. If I didn't drive a Town & Country and read those reviews of the Odyssey, I too might go and vote for the Odyssey just by what the Edmunds reviews claim to be true.
Regarding resale value, I should hope the resale on a new Odyssey is good since so many people seem to be paying at or over MSRP for their vans. This is especially the case with the earlier 1999 and 2000 model Odysseys. Resale value of Chrysler vans doesn't seem so bad any more when you take into consideration how much people actually pay for them.
Jun 06, 2002 (11:30 am)
You quote Edmunds when it suits you and disagree if they don't share your opinion. To me that lowers your credibility. Is it so shocking that maybe a lot of people would rather take their chances with a Odyssey than the lack of quality that DC vans have had. Yea we know that they are doing better this week. But from past practice a lot of their problems don't show up for a couple years or more. Only time will tell if you are right and I am wrong. And yes I believe that Honda would outsell DC if they made enough vans. After all they do it in the rest of the categorys that they both sell in.
#1323 of 7485 I wonder
Jun 06, 2002 (12:05 pm)
how many people buy a DC minivan because they don't want to (or can't) wait for an Ody? That might be an interesting poll to do.
#1324 of 7485 Interesting poll...
Jun 06, 2002 (12:40 pm)
To be honest, I didn't have a chance to test drive the Ody before I bought my T&C Ltd and I didn't want to buy or wait for a car that I can't even sit in (I would if I am buying a Ferrari or a Lambo). I did have a chance to drive one 3 or 4 months after I bought the T&C. Over all the Ody was ok (maybe I am used to my T&C). Anyway, if a Ody was avaliable back then it would be a tough decision. It might not sound right but I do buy cars based on their styling more than any other things (safety included). Hopefully, Honda or Toyota will make some better looking vans in the future.
#1325 of 7485 Car Buying Reality
Jun 06, 2002 (2:51 pm)
Most of the people that I know base their car buying decisions by first determining the style of vehicle that they want and then the rest is determined either by looks, price, or reputation. Unlike many of the readers here, most of these people are not very informed on vehicle specs, safety, reliability (other than if somebody told them one brand was good or lousy), or trade-in values. Even many on this board who are fairly informed tend to take things like crash tests ratings at face value without looking at the stats behind them. For them 5 stars is 25% better than 4 stars when in reality it could be as little as 1-2% difference in some specific measurements. The public is getting more informed about car buying but the fact is that the type of people that read these boards are a small minority of the buying public.
Jun 06, 2002 (2:55 pm)
I would hate to get into a big fight with your or say something that might offend you because I doubt you would ever live it down. You and alot of people have been "burned" by Chrysler in the past. I repeat, in the past. Did I say in the past? Fifteen years from now you can continue to use your past experience with a company which has obviously improved its quality as a way not to buy their product. But that's your loss.
And yes, I do quote Edmunds when they share my opinion and then disagree when they don't. What would you expect? Many of the complaints they have of Chrysler minivans are totally ridiculous, and even false. They slam the Town & Country Limited for being too expensive when it has more luxury and convienence features than any other van compared. At the time, the Odyssey didn't even offer a leather interior when the T&C is covered in it. And then in their "spin around town" of a 2001 Grand Caravan EX they go on and on about how their vehicle didn't come with a left side power door. When in fact, most Grand Caravan EX models ship from the factory with dual power sliding doors as an option, which Edmunds failed to mention.
I'll curse the day when the boxy, bland, boring Honda Odyssey outsells Chrysler minivans. It will really be horrible. I don't think I could stand seeing the road covered with cookie cutter Odysseys in that dull, lifeless gray color. At least with Chrysler you can choose from about 12 different models and two wheelbase sizes which all look slightly different. If Honda matched Chryslers production, they might be able to outsell them. But I would hardly look to a survey done by Edmunds to determine that.
Jun 06, 2002 (3:30 pm)
4aodge says: the Odyssey didn't even offer a leather interior when the T&C is covered in it. There you go exaggerating again. For your information your DC van and EVERY other one as far as I know are just the seating surface is in leather. That means from your shoulders down to your hinny is leather, the sides and back of the seats, headrests, door panels and 3rd seat are vinyl. Even on the great Odyssey is this a fact. Now on my 01 I got aftermarket leather from Classic Soft Trim and ALL the seats including the 3rd are in leather, including the door panels. This also included hi/lo heated seats. All for $1600 which isn't anymore than the factories charge.
#1328 of 7485 Speaking of resale, again
Jun 06, 2002 (4:43 pm)
So how much does aftermarket leather add to an 01 Odyssey's resale? Nothing, it isn't in any major pricing book, and so a dealer will never give you credit for it. On an 01 Dodge van leather adds between $627-$827 to resale, and costs between $783 and $1250 to add to a new van. That's a little better then $1600 to install and get no credit for later. This is a reason why sometimes vans originally sold in Canada can be a good deal. My brother has a 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager LE that is really loaded. The books don't show any such thing as a Voyager LE in 96 only the Dodge. It also has the 3.8 which supposedly wasn't available on the Voyager that year. So the best they could show for a book value was a loaded Voyager SE which gave him a bunch of stuff like the 3.8, infinity sound, power seats, etc. for free. Now he will face the same problem if he trys to sell but as the van ages options end up worth very little.
My problem with this whole thread is that I feel most fans of the Chrysler fans can see that both vans are a good van that you really wouldn't go wrong either way in buying. The only reason I ever started engaging in these discussions was way back in late 2000 when all the Honda owners were really "trolling" the Chrysler forums spewing hate and discontent. It seems many of the Honda fans just will not admit that the Honda has not lived up to initial quality expectations, and that the Chrysler van is a great van as well, especially now that it has been re designed. I would have no problem if my motor bought an Odyssey, I'd think she got a good van, as long as she checked out all options and made her decision based on facts then it obviously would be the best van for her. It seems that that kind of attitude is rarely turned the other way by the Honda crowd. You should have seen these boards back when hardly anybody actually owned the new Honda, they were just 59th on the list or something. They were just absolutely certain of their choice even though many had never even seen one in person, let alone drove one! Now I feel many of those same people, even if faced with a horrible sting of problems, would never admit they were a little let down by their decision. At the time they could only compare it to a Chrysler van that was a 5 year old design, now that there is a redesign on the Chrysler a bunch of them have got to be questioning their decision, they will never admit it, but they have got to be.
#1329 of 7485 Speaking of resale, again by hersbird
Jun 06, 2002 (5:20 pm)
I disagree on the 01's with aftermarket not getting anything extra for the leather. I have purchased many many cars/trucks/RV's (at least 50)and has always got extra for those add ons. If that was the case then those stripped down vans that they use for conversions would only bring what the orginal stipped down van cost. I just sold a GEO Tracker a while back that I added a hardtop to, and they gave me $800 over book as they said it cost them about 1200 to put one on the new Trackers.
#1330 of 7485 leather seating
Jun 06, 2002 (5:43 pm)
hersbird, I totally agree that both vans are great in their own respects. And I too first engaged in these discussions after seeing how many Honda Odyssey owners here trashed DC vans and made them seem like worthless pieces of garbage But I also realize the Honda Odyssey is far from perfect in the areas of reliability (for a Honda), comfort, and convienence at least when compared to the competition, namely the Town & Country. In fact, if I had to buy a van and Chrysler did not exist, the Odyssey would be the only viable alternative for me.
This is not to say DC minivans are perfect, as I've said many times in the past. They have a troubled reliability and safety history which some might find concerning. Although I have tried to show that they are improving in both of those areas.
dmathews, when I say the Town & Country Limited is covered in leather, I am not exaggerating. Not only does it have leather on the seats, doors, and side panels but it also has suede accents as well. None of which were offered on the 2001 Honda Odyssey and in some cases aren't even offered on the 2002 model. And on a personal note, I would much rather have factory leather installed than your after market leather, which in the case of paying 1600 dollars as you did is more expensive than it would be to get it stock on a Dodge Grand Caravan.
The leather package on the Grand Caravan EX includes heated leather seating, leather wrapped steering wheel, and steering wheel audio controls all for 1,060. And as hersbird has pointed out, your after market leather won't do much to your vans resale value.