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Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2003 earlier) - READ ONLY

3687 messages,  Last post on Jul 18, 2007 at 11:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Sienna, Van

    

Messages Page 150 of 369

#1488 of 3687 I love Toyota's, but not the problems with the new vans by clnelson

Jan 10, 2002 (6:29 am)

I can't believe what I am seeing. I bought a new 1999 toyota sienna in march of 1999. It had about 5000 miles on it, as it had been a demo driven by the north east florida toyota president (so I was told). Immediately I was having poblems with rear tires going flat. It had firestone tires on it, but not those being recalled. During the first year I had the vehicle I was woking with the dealership about the tires and low gas mileage, oil problems- where when toyota changed it they said it was darker than usual. The oil problems increased to that it was smoking when starting and oil light always on and aways needing oil. Finally at the 1 year point they said it was sludged and not covered. My husband being a jet mechanic had to see this to believe it. To his surprise they were right it was sludged. But the oil changes had been done. We could prove 3 at the dealership and 1 elsewhere. One of the oil change toyota did was to have cleaned the engine. There had been more but receipts not available. There was disagreement as to when the oil changes should be done. Service mgr says 3000, Dealer says 5000, book said differently(7500) . This was between the service mgr, the dealership mgr and the owners booklet. When the service mgr said oil had to be changed at 3000 due to siennas being different and needing them sooner, I asked why the dealership had waited to do the 1st oil change at over 5400 miles (when i purchased it). I CAN ONLY TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES THE STORY CHANGED. So they said it would be 1600 to desludge the engine and to bring in the receipts and they would as a goodwill jesture cover half of the cost. then after the work was done, my vehicle was held for full payment. I paid the full amount on the condition that when the service mgr got back i would be refunded half. It didnt happen and per some advise I stopped payment on my check. Well I ended up paying the full amount with a guarentee that if it happened again (sludge). Guess what???? 20 months later i have an engine that blew with no warnings. And the mehanic says it has plenty of oil... well of course it does. My husband started 20 months ago changing the oil and filter him self with premium stuff. (ex: synthetic oil and premium filters) So in the almost three years I have had this sienna we are out 1800 for the sludge and looking at 5500 for a new engine. By the way the tire problem is that the axle has them wearing uevenly. New tires all the time. For those of you who love toyotas and think I am bashing them......wrong. I love toyotas. This was our 3rd toyota from the same dealorship. It was to be our van to the end ( we pictured 12 years and 300,000 miles like the old commercial and our last one). So I am not bashing toyotas but bashing the problem and lack of concern by toyota. How can so many people with receipts for oil changes be at fault. This is so sad, I really wanted to be jumping in the air with pride like I did with my last toyota when it had over 300,000 miles on it and still running so well that I sold it for 1000.00 ( the body had rusted but the engine was still strong)

#1489 of 3687 cliffy1 by stealth1969

Jan 10, 2002 (8:54 am)

here is a copy of a post from Alcan from the Engine Sludge thread, " #116 of 2836 Stealth1969 by alcan Jan 24, 2001 (06:38 pm)
Since this has become an empassioned topic, I'll try to keep this as brief and objective as possible.

Several factors, alone or in concert, can cause engine sludging. The most common is water in the oil, usually from internal condensation resulting from cold startup, or occasionally from a seeping head gasket. This is especially true during short trip winter driving, where the engine doesn't have time to fully normalize and gas off any condensate. At least one auto manufacturer has determined that 10 - 15 miles of freeway operation are required to bring everything up to full operating temperature. Richer fuel mixtures required for cold engine startup combined with high sulphur content fuel can also contribute to sludging. Hence the recommendation for more frequent oil change intervals in the winter, especially for short trip drivers. An often overlooked possible contributing factor is a hot running engine, which can promote oil oxidation and breakdown. So, on the surface it would appear that operator negligence re servicing would be the primary cause of sludge buildup.

However, the engine's positive crankcase ventilation system is designed to purge combustion blowby gases, water vapour, and any other gaseous contaminants from the crankcase. This system should reduce or at least delay the rate of oil contamination. If the PCV system is inoperative or compromised, or poorly designed (inadequate or localized crankcase vacuum), then the rate of sludge buildup could accelerate despite oil changes in accordance with manufacturers' specified intervals. Could engine design be at least partly responsible? Chrysler, for example, currently has an issue with some of their V8 engine oil fillers which don't heat at the same rate as the rest of the engine due in part to placement directly in the cooling fan air stream, allowing condensation to build up and sludge to form in the filler tube and underside of the filler cap.

I'm not sure if this is the answer you were looking for, but it's the collective opinion of 2 other automotive technical professors and myself (I teach emission control systems, among other disciplines), with a current combined trade and research experience of 109 years.

Here is a link woth some good info:
Http://boatside.net/what_causes_engine_sludge.htm
There are other causes of sludge. But I know you work for Toyota and their only response is Lack of mainteance.

#1490 of 3687 Thanks Cliffy1+ everyone by autolover3

Jan 10, 2002 (1:58 pm)

Thanks for the response on the warranty info. I like to hear all of the good advice. Thanks again.

#1491 of 3687 Class Action suit by kendall69

Jan 10, 2002 (11:12 pm)

With all these sludge problems WHY do you not all get together and force Toyota to wake up. Ford denied the bad engine head gaskets for years till they lost a class action suit and then and ONLY then repaired the engines.

#1492 of 3687 Class Action suit by kendall69 Jan 10, 2002 (10:12 pm) by exdodger

Jan 11, 2002 (7:49 am)

"With all these sludge problems WHY do you not all get together and force Toyota to wake up?"
 
Me suspects that is because all these postings come from a single source--I don't know a class action suit can be filed on behalf of someone's multiple alia's.
 
That being said "She-who-must-not-be-named" must have been hurt really bad by a Toyota dealer somewhere.

#1493 of 3687 In this corner... by bob57

Jan 11, 2002 (10:24 am)

I trolled the "Sludge" site yesterday. Wow! I think if you put all these people in a room you would have a brawl. There is a lot of vulgar innuendo's happening there. Entertaining (to a degree) but I'm surprised Edmunds is letting certain ones get away with that.
Since I don't have a sludge problem on my '00 I will just watch...

#1494 of 3687 New Sludged Engine by sludged10k

Jan 13, 2002 (11:15 am)

This is my first -- and probably last -- post about my sludged 2001 toyota sienna engine.
 
My engine sludged after 10200 miles and 10 months. I had changed the oil at 5000 miles. I did not even know what sludge meant until my oil light came on after a 500 mile trip.... and I started checking the web.
 
Sure enough, looking into the oil fill area I can see a lake of black 'ointment' that I can stick my finger into. The car runs, but puffs smoke.
 
There seem to be a lot of 'Japan Inc' defenders on the sites rebutting the possibility that there is a problem with the Sienna engine. They often take the position that owners cause this problem themselves by not changing oil every 3000 miles, rather than the 7500 miles recommended by Toyota manuals.
 
Actually, I'm the type that does 3000 mi changes. But when I took delivery I was specifically told (unprompted) NOT to change the oil early, since they were filled with a special break-in oil that should be used for at least 5000 miles. Maybe this was gratuitous post-sales hype (or it may be the basis of the Toyota-Pennzoil suit) but it was presented very emphatically.
 
Now that I have a ruined engine, I recall an occasion when the car was only a few months old when my wife was driving off and I saw a puff of oil smoke. The car was so new I sort of just dismissed it.
 
Based on my experience and what I read here, Toyota has a big problem on its its hands and it's defensive posture is serving loyal customers poorly.
 
The preponderance of data and my personal experience leave me convinced that the Company Men who frequent edmonds and this site trashing complaint makers may be misleading other Sienna owners that do not YET have sludged engines.
 
Taking their advice and changing oil on these engines twice as often as the manual suggests may simply postpone the problem until the warranty miles are over, thus lowering the complaint profile.
 
Since this engine is sludge prone I'm dumping my Sienna with an early trade for a non-Toyota and advise anyone who can afford it to do the same now, before it sludges and you lose $6000.
 
Be aware, however, that the trade-value of your Sienna has already been affected by this problem, and dealers are carefully inspecting these cars before accepting them, if they accept them at all.
_
Well, since this is my last Toyota, I may as well lodge a complete complaint and include info on my two prior Toyotas.
 
1999 Sienna van. Transmission failed suddenly on trip 400 miles from home at 34000 miles. Dealer quizzed me about recommended 30000 mi maintenance, and I showed him the receipt of the transmission fluid service at 30000 miles. After his obligotory defamation of jiffy lube, and a rental car and a return visit to the area a week later, I drove off with my new transmission. Two days later, after driving home, the transmission failed and my local dealer replaced it with ANOTHER new one. Seems the other dealer forgot to put the plug in. So much for dissing jiffy lube (but see below)
 
1988 Camry. Transmission failed the first year and was replaced under warranty. They called with a quality survey the next day. I said we were happy with the repair and the service. They asked me if I was displeased with any aspect of the service. I said well, since you asked, I wish they had called me to let me know the status of the repair, since they had a few days delay in getting a part, but no big deal. Two days later my wife gets a call from the 'service' tech saying he was called into his bosses office and reprimanded and was shown a copy of our 'complaint' . He told my wife never to do that again or he 'would come over and take care of her' (exact quote). Since we were moving to a different city within a few days and had been threatened by this nutso employee, we dropped it. However, we had an oil change at jiffy lube a day later and the tech pulled us over to show us that there was NO transmission fluid in our week old transmission. Saved by the luck of an oil change at jiffy lube (not they are perfect) -- of course we dared not tell Toyota.
 
(note... I will crosspost this to other sites)

#1495 of 3687 sludge by jeprox

Jan 13, 2002 (11:26 am)

just wondering here - anyone with a canadian model sienna w/sludge problem or even a camry?
 
all the sludge problems i read seems to be on u.s. models.

#1496 of 3687 Just bought Sienna... by zakaria2

Jan 13, 2002 (11:23 pm)

Just bought Sienna 2002 CE in central VA. Never had Toyota before. Two of my colleagues own Siennas. One has 60.000+ and the other one approx. 30.000 miles on it and I haven't heard from their owners anything similar to those horror stories about sludge etc. I read on this forum. Personally, I am not a big fan of Toyota, as well as Japanese car industry at all but we need space of minivan because we have three small children and Sienna seemed best choice. In the part of the world I come from, I owned one Mercedes and VW Golf I with 54 hp Diesel engine. It is 21 years old now and is still operated by my brother in law. Nothing can come even close to German cars. It is much more than just transportation from point A to point B. It is pleasure. However, in the US German cars are beyond my financial capability. I wish I could buy VW Eurovan with manual transmission and Diesel Engine and not a piece of kitchen appliance on wheels with all kinds of power stuff. Anyway, what I want to say is that some people have no clue how to treat new car. First 1000 miles are critical for the rest of the life of engine. Never put excess load on cold engine, accelerate slowly, never drive faster then 50 mph, never tow anything and change oil after 1000 miles no matter what manuals or dealers say and you wont have sludge or anything like that.

#1497 of 3687 TODAY by dardson1

Jan 14, 2002 (8:01 pm)

I hurried down to my dealer to get my fourth oil change by the dealer just over 12k miles. There is just too much talk about sludge for there not to be some truth to it. There's another site devoted to minivans (not Edmunds). It's basically a message board for questions concerning problems with various brands. The Sienna board is 90% sludge related topics. If this is a conspiracy by a few Toyota haters, they must have nothing else to do all day. Too much smoke (no pun intended) for there to be no fire. I can well imagine in this less than perfect world that Toyota just might have made an engine that is prone to sludge if not religiously maintained.

Messages Page 150 of 369

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