Last post on Dec 14, 2011 at 1:46 PM
You are in the Mazda MPV
What is this discussion about?
Mazda MPV, Van
Nov 29, 2001 (8:54 am)
Do you really think that the 2002 MPV will be selling near MSRP? If it does, I will really be shocked. as you are well aware, it is not the most popular minivan (and I like it that way, as I don't want to see 10 of the same vans I'm driving when I go the neighborhood park)
which is a plus in the sense that Mazda is going to have to keep it really competitively priced in this market (esp. now that the KIA Sedona is out there). I think the new MSRP will be no more than 3% more than the current - even with the bigger engine (see what happened to the Odyssey - Honda increased engine HP by 30 or 40 horses and their MSRP changed insignificantly between the 2001 and the 2002).
I think that if Mazda dealers want to sell alot of the 2002 minivans, they are going to have to offer it near invoice (perhaps 1 or 2% higher)because there are very few potential buyers that will pay close to MSRP (which is good for customers). Let me know what you think?
Nov 29, 2001 (2:18 pm)
Actually, I really do think the 2002 MPV will be selling much closer to MSRP, probably not at, but close to it. I too like that the MPV is a bit of a rarity, as I've always driven more off-the-beat cars (no Cavaliers for me).
I'm sure Mazda wants to produce vehicles that sell for MSRP (more profits) and like any business digging for sales and profits, they've got to design products geared to maximize both and the 2002 improvements are responses to the customers (and reviewers) cries for the past 3 years. Let's wait and see about the MSRP increase..I'll gladly insert my foot and applaud if they don't increase pricing $2k, but that's still my guess. They're making a ton of changes on the van for this model year.
The 2002 Odyssey is indeed a tough act to follow for the hp-folks, and it's getting a 5sp tranny also, but really not much else. Besides, they're not putting a different motor into the van, they're messing with the motor (costs less). Almost all of the improvements for the 2002my are from the Honda/Acura parts bin already, so they easily can keep the price down since Honda enjoys an economy of scale. I have to disagree with the MSRP argument because I feel that since you are hard pressed to even get an Ody for MSRP, you should look at out-the-door selling prices. So what, if the MSRP for a 2002 Ody LX is $25k and change if you still pay $27k for it if you pay $24k (I'm *estimating* again for a 2002 model...)for a better equipped (imho) MPV, that actually has an almost identical power-to-wieght ratio for 2002 (meaning for the stoplight racers...it won't be dusted anymore).
The Kia van: Well maybe I'm alone in feeling a serious stigma for anything from that brand or the other (non-Japanese) Asian brands. I personally don't like the styling of the Kia and I think it lacks alot of functionality that the Ody and MPV bring to the table. It's marginally larger than the MPV (by a few inches), it does have a big, snorty engine, but it weighs over 4700lbs, 1000+ more than the MPV and more than the Ody even, so it's a porker and is gonna be dog-slow, or at least as slow as the current MPV at least <wink>. Also, you can't get side airbags and have to pay extra for ABS, and it's EPA ratings for fuel economy are SUV-like. However, man is it cheap at under $20k starting price...my question is: why is it so cheap?
Sorry, too much coffee...too much free time...
#2340 of 8223 ODy price
Nov 29, 2001 (2:48 pm)
You can get an ody at MSRP in most of country. Some dealers are selling them under MSRP right now.
I have to agree with Davrich that even the improved MPV will be selling near invoice price, which could be much higher next year anyway. If you ask people to spend more than 28K, they would buy an Ody EX-L (MSRP) or a Sienna XLE with leather (carsdirect price).
In this boad, most of owners bought their MPV because they did not want to pay too much for Hondas and Toyotas. If the price difference is too little (1-2K), I belive many would-be MPV owners will turn to Honda or Toyota.
#2341 of 8223 Reca - price was not the issue with us!
Nov 29, 2001 (3:36 pm)
Sorry but we like the MPV much more than Odyssey plain and simple. Our next door neighbors got a '99 Ody when they first came out (after many months of waiting but they did get it for under sticker! Wow what a concept). We were considering one too until they got their van, very underwhelming and very much a problem. They weren't even very excited when they brought it home. Not like us when we got this beautiful bright red MPV with leather and moonroof and great stereo and everything we needed. While their Ody continues to go in the shop for problems with the doors, electrical, gas smell, keys, etc... we just keep smiling in our MPV. People still comment about how pretty our new van is (and we bought it Jan. 2000).
Nov 29, 2001 (3:59 pm)
actually has a better performing engine than the current MPV (not breaking news) and will likely be similar to the new MPV engine. I believe it was originally designed by BMW. A co-worker of mine has one and I've driven it several times. Not a bad vehicle, definitely not slow, but horrible gas mileage ~20mpg on highway!
Nov 29, 2001 (4:24 pm)
sorry, darn twitchy fingers, and didn't want to appear to give a shameless plug to the KIA! Even though the price is enticing (my friend's van came with everything, even RES, in the $24K range) and the financing options look good, I can't get beyond the reliability factor. I drove some of the early Hyundai junk as a company vehicle and it was really bad! That's the stigma KIA has to overcome. They may actually build a good van someday, but I'll remain leery for quite some time.
#2345 of 8223 The KIA is well over 2 Tons
Nov 29, 2001 (4:40 pm)
Yes, it has a nice big 3.5L engine, but it's power output is not exciting and with I believe a curb weight of about 4700# it would be 1000# heavier than an MPV (3600-3700#, IIRC)
Weight to HP Ratios
MPV ES 160 Peak HP and 3682# = 23.01#/HP
KIA EX 195 Peak HP and 4709# = 24.15#/HP
So the Kia has a less favorable power to weight ratio. Or course it has better torque to get rolling, so the Kia is a better choice to tow trailers.
Nov 29, 2001 (4:55 pm)
Actually, price was something of an issue with me. My LX was just about at the top of my price range, even with the deep discounts. But I looked first the the Oddity anyway; we've owned several Hondas over the years and were mightily impressed by them. What turned me away from it--and ultimately to the MPV--was these Edmunds forums, both the MPV and the Odyssey ones. Frankly, the Odyssey forums scared the hell out of me. The range and nature of their problems were just too intimidating for me to even think of stretching my budget to fit. Reading their comments and complaints and tales of woe, I had to wonder if they had bought the car blind or because of Honda's reputation and only joined the site later on to share their miseries. Coming to this site, I was struck both by the picayune nature of the problems mentioned and the fierce--sometimes combative--loyalty of the owners. All the writers seemed hopelessly devoted to their admittedly quirky and less-than-perfect beasts [one of the tipoffs was the number of people who named them--you don't give a pet name to something you're busy swearing at].
The point of this mindless ramble is this [finally]: If the 02 is as good as it promises to be--and it should be since it addresses most of our "complaints"--even the reviewers should see the difference. Combine that with the positive reviews even the 00 and 01's are getting here on these forums, and there is going to be a demand for these cars. If that happens, and I think it will, you won't be seeing many deals. Whatever their MSRP, I think you'll be lucky to get a nickel off it.
But if it does what it's promising to do, it'll be worth it.
#2347 of 8223 Kia stigma (is that a new model? *G*)
Nov 29, 2001 (5:00 pm)
Are Hyundai and Kia related somehow? I remember the Hyundai brake fiasco, but I haven't heard anything bad about Kia. In fact, my first Kia--a Ford Festiva--was a great car for the price. Basic, reliable transportation and 40 mpg.