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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Toyota Sienna Prices Paid and Buying Experience
9658 messages, Last post on Dec 07, 2009 at 4:46 PM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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PART 1 of 2 . . . Thanks to folks on this board, in particular anduril, my wife and I went to a dealership tonight and bought a car. The information available here was instrumental in helping us drive a deal our way. Our objective for this evening was to test the price waters only, but that if the deal were good enough, we would jump in. Let me back up first. We decided on a Sienna 6 months ago, but were turned off by the high prices they were (supposedly) commanding at the time. I am not a fan of paying a premium just for having a “popular” car. I was actively looking for an alternative, but felt that the Sienna had the best combination of smart features, high quality, and a price that was still “in the ballpark.” Time, I thought, was on our side, so we waited for better deals. Three months ago, we finally committed to getting a Sienna. Prices still seemed to be high, but our old car was dying and had become somewhat unreliable. We decided that our best bet might be to go through an arranged deal, similar to (but not) Costco. I contacted the appropriate dealer, who offered me a seemingly reasonable price, a fixed amount above (any LE) invoice, which was much lower than “specials” we’d seen, and a 7-10 day turnaround. Part of the reason we didn’t end up with a car back then was that we asked for an option package that was “unavailable” in our region. When we started our search, the LE 2WD 7p was listed everywhere as having 9 option packages available for it. We had originally wanted the base model without any package, but dealers told us and Toyota admitted that this was impossible. We then resigned ourselves to select a package that at least gave us something useful. Homelink, rear audio controls, and 1 power door are not high on our list. The “exotic” package we settled on was BC (Pkg. #2.) At $328(invoice) more than the AM(Pkg #1,) BC includes alloy wheels – a fair(er) deal. Funny thing is though; Toyota limits certain packages to certain regions. In fact, some areas are limited to only 1 choice. Our region includes a pragmatic selection (4) of the idealistically potential (9) packages “offered.” My guess is that there just isn’t enough demand for diverse packages in such a limited market as this, Los Angeles, must be. Toyota actually refused to tell me what region Pkg. #2 could be found in. A western region manager for Toyota told me that he did not even have access to that information! He also couldn’t (wouldn’t?) tell me where I could find an LE with factory alarm. Hmmm, let’s see – a V5 factory installed integrated alarm at $119 (invoice,) $249 (msrp,) vs. a dealer mechanic installed alarm weighing in at $499 retail - which to choose . . . Coincidentally he also told me that if a car with my configuration was located, “out of state let’s say,” then I would run the risk of having my state (CA) refuse to register the car. This Toyota representative went on to conveniently explain that “he’d heard” that cars coming into CA with mileage below a certain threshold “may” be difficult, or even impossible to register. Interestingly enough Toyota changed their web site about a month or so ago so that “building your car” now requires you to enter a zip code before it will let you pick a package. Have some fun! Try this with different areas and see what you come up with. Oddly, many sites let you try any configuration of options you want, Edmunds included. Toyota maintains that their cars can be “preference ordered,” but the dealers I contacted were reluctant to do this. I have been told by dealers and by Toyota that preference orders are essentially similar to standby seats on an airline: if it’s there at the factory, and the dealer originally slated to get it no longer wants it, the you might have a chance at getting it. In other words, no special orders. Some dealers, in so many words, basically denied their ability to preference order. We had to coax our dealer, after almost 2 mos., to finally “preference order” our choice, with little confidence we would see the car anytime soon. Weeks rolled by and again I talked to Toyota, trying to help them sell me a car?! This time they offered to help, by way of “working with” my dealer. At first, the dealer told me that his “working with” Toyota would be fruitless, but I persisted and got him to accept their call. Not 15 minutes later I got a call from the now excited dealer claiming that – get this – someone in his office had overheard our (telephone) conversation and just happened to know that a car with my specs was about to be built. Wow! What are the odds on that? Okay – present time again. So we get a call from “our” dealer about a week ago, saying the car we want (we never did get the alarm) was on its way. I started reading up again here and at other sites to check on prices and became convinced that our “good deal” no longer looked very good, but looked more like what it actually was: an invoice + 7.8% deal. Don’t forget that there is also a 2% dealer holdback. That gives the dealer close to 10% profit. We decided to go to a large and not so nearby dealer (I’ll call “dealer 2”) and see if we could do better, knowing that we would be relegated to stock on hand. We knew through their web inventory that they had a few LE’s with package 1. We decided that we would try 4% over invoice, and see where the deal would go. It may seem unethical to play this game after asking the first dealer (“dealer 1”) to “order” a car for us, but put in the context of how little he actually did for us and the game he played, it isn’t. The idea was to see if and how low we might be able to rework the original deal by getting other prices. I didn’t plan on wasting dealer 2’s time either. If he gave us a low enough price, we would give up our “ordered” car and buy from dealer 2. CONTINUED IN MY NEXT POST . . . |
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. . .CONTINUED FROM MY LAST POST Part 2 of 2 We showed up at the dealership around 8:30 this evening, with folder and calculator in hand. My wife and I were greeted by dealer 2 as we got out of the car. He was polite, relaxed and friendly, and pleasant to deal with. We knew the car we were looking for by vin #, and he took us right to it to check it out. Once we verified that it was what we wanted, I told him we were ready to deal. I told him we would come back to test it and check the car out after we made a deal, and then come back in to sign. And that’s what we ended up doing, without any hassle. I gave dealer 2 my offer up front, told him it was fair and firm, and asked that we not go back and forth. He took the offer to the manager, and came back within a minute, with 24360! Keep in mind that the sticker was $25860 - straight MSRP, without any extra crap. I countered with a 2nd but final offer of 24125, a $75 increase. I told him that if he came down to this price, I would buy. But then I started having pangs of guilt, that if I bought tonight, dealer 1 wouldn’t even have a chance to negotiate on a car we actually wanted more. So I told dealer 2 that instead of completing the deal, I would come back tomorrow, when I could inspect the car in daylight. Bad thing to say to a someone intent on selling, as dealer 2 surely was. He went to his manager and immediately came back and agreed to my counteroffer. I again stated my reservations, and the salesman cut the price, without the aid of his manager, to my original offer! I had now spent 20 minutes at the table, and was feeling guilty about the whole thing. Even though there was an arguably good deal on the table, I still felt that I should give dealer 1 a chance. I was doubly confused at how easily I was getting this deal. I tried to graciously get us out of there, when dealer 2 did something I have never seen any car salesman do, and probably never will again. Dealer 2 cut my original offer by about $200 and asked if that would work, pending his manager’s approval. Thirty seconds later he came back with the new lower figure. It’s now 9:20, and we’re done! What’s wrong with this picture? Well, it is Dec. 19th, the dealership claims to want to make a yearly goal, the place is huge, Friday night before Christmas week – all that stuff helps. By the way, the whole deal was out in the open, no closed office, and took about 40 minutes total, with at least half of that time being my own hesitation. No games played against my price goal, no undue pressure, just a really easy time. Absolutely no pressure to purchase an extended warranty, which I did not. I had a great experience buying my last car through a broker, but I never thought I might have a better time through a dealer. I did. ------------ Particulars ------------- THE CAR: 2004 LE 7 passenger, AM(Pkg#1), Z4(Preferred Accessory Package with: - Cargo Net - Rear Bumper Protector – Carpet Mats) Couldn’t find Z4 price anywhere, but retail at $250 falls between CF(Carpet mats) and Z1(carpet mats, sill protectors, first aid,) so I’m guessing about $150 invoice for it. THE DEAL: Total invoice (Edmunds:) 22,631 = 21,833 + 648(AM) + 150(Z4) My offer: 24,050 = Invoice + 4%[actually 3.89 – don’t ask why . . .) + 540 destination Their offer: 23,860 = Invoice + 3%(that’s $689 over invoice) + 540 dest. Out the door: 23,860 + Tax + Lic. + $45 Doc. MSRP: 25,860 |
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Those form letters usually end up in the circular file. Not pay a commission to a salesperson? A house deal is still handled by a salesperson and that salesperson has to be paid. Mackabee |
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| I guess this assumes the fleet manager gets salary only. This is the first time I've seen this suggested. | |
| I spoke to a dealer in NJ who told me he would give me a deal on an LE but not a CE. He said the cabs companies in NY are buying the CE at MSRP. I have seen a CE being used as a cab. For a while the cabs where into the Honda. If its good enough for a cab company it should be good enough for my driving. | |
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We have a couple of blast fax/blast email articles on Edmunds, but they don't say anything about being able to avoid a commission and thus saving money with that term. Blast Fax Car Buying Note the "car in good supply" comment at the end  Steve, Host |
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Thanks to everyone for their coaching and thoughts. I have been looking at an XLE Limited Sienna with #4 pckge for 3 months now but we are in no rush to buy(this van will be back up to our '01 odyssey). Here's what we are currently seeing from local Northern California dealers: Either its supply and/or end of year sales driving it, but I've currently found 3 dealers that are now willing to sell this van for $500 over invoice(price matches edmunds invoice+tda, etc). In fact one yesterday was willing to go $300 over. Of course there are still those dealers that are still trying to take advantage of unwary consumers or folks that need to buy now and asking $1500+ over, but if you shop around - the deals are there! Just my 2 cents. |
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| how much is TDA in northern Calif.? are any other fees added to invoice besides TTL? | |
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fbattle- see my post on #2778 to see invoice pricing all the norcal dealers are showing me that includes all the details. The prices i mentioned are $300-$500 over this price ($33900 in this case). Hope that helps. |
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After 2 months of following this discussion board, finally purchased by Sienna XLE limited yesterday for Eddie Wiggins Toyota in Warner Robins, GA. I was able to get it for $500 over dealer invoice. Here in Georgia ( SET territory ) the invoice prices are higher than what is quoted in edmunds.com. Basically, my price was $33415 + Tax (6%) + Title ( $21) + $399 documentation fees for a final walkout price of $35864. The dealer invoice was $32915 which as you can see was more than what you see in edmunds.com but very close to some of the other commonly researched websites. The vehicle details are Sienna XLE Limited -- Salsa Red. Options Center Console Box - GVAT Toyo Guard Plus - XY70 Rear Spoiler -- CX90 Carpet Mats -- PV70. I can provide more details if anyone needs it. |
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