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Vans & Minivans Mazda MPV Mazda MPV: Problems & Solutions 
4469 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 8:04 PM
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From time to time I have read comments that say something to the effect, "I drove an MPV with 16" wheels and it rides much better than the 15" wheels." QUESTIONS: (1) I am also told that the total diameter of the mounted tire with 15", 16" and 17" wheels is the same--the difference to accomplish this being in the height of the tire wall from the wheel rim out to the tread. If this is true. . . (2) Why would it ride better on what is essentially less air?, and. . . (3) Would the 16" or 17" wheels have any effect on "handling"? The steering (handling) of my 2002 LX is VERY sensitive, and unless you pay close attention it sometimes (especially in gusty winds) seems to "wander" a bit. Tho I love it dearly, for some reason it does not seem to track with the flawless stability of my 94 Olds Ciera wagon. Would 16" or 17" wheels have any appreciable effect on this, or is the car's handling just the sensitive nature of the Mazda steering mechanism? Solid factual advice on this, anyone???? |
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It's probably more a function of the tires, your tire pressure, and your alignment. Some tires seem to find every crack and crevice in the road and try to follow it. You do mention wind, your van has a lot more surface area than the Olds wagon, so it is more sensitive to the wind. First, check your tire pressure with a really good gauge, not the $2 ones at Walmart. You can get a fairly decent one for around $10, if you don't already have one. Use it every Saturday when you check out your vehicle for lights working and such. 8^) Of course, check them cold. That's why Saturday morning is a good time. Unless you work the night shift, the adjust accordingly. Check your air pressure and make sure they are the same as specified on the door/manual for the vehicle. If that's all good, then drive the van. If you notice it darting a particular way, check the road surface. Does the road have a crown in it that slopes one way. If there are other lanes, do they have a crown that goes the other direction? If so, drive over there (when safe) and see if the behavior is the same or changes. What direction is the wind? Is it a cross wind, partially a crosswind, you should get the idea. The drive back on the same road in the other direction. If it is a wind issue, any pull should be in the other direction. I've not noticed our MPV to wander, but it is very sensitive to the wind. Oh, trucks and overpasses may create little "Low Pressure Zones" where you seem to get sucked in before you are blown back. If none of this explains it, then see your dealer and tell him what you've already tried. HTH TB |
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Of course, better ride is subjective. My Grandmother who loves her Mercury Grand Marquis would just love the 15" tires with the pillow like ride (relative to the 17" tire.) A 17" wheel means a shorter sidewall. This means better steering response, most likely more road feel and such. The downside is the ride will be more harsh. (Some people don't like road feel. I don't understand those people 8^) ) And of course, you've hit upon one of the most important characteristics of your tires, the air they hold. It is the air pressure in your tires that support the weight of your van. In an ideal world with 50/50 weight and a loaded van weighing 4000#, each corner supports rougly 1000#. If you have 40 PSI in your tires (for nice round numbers) you then have about a 25 square inch contact patch at each tire. Or about 100 square inches total. But it is the pressure, not the volume of air that supports the vehicle. What typically happens is the shape of that contact patch changes. People with the 17" wheel may have a wider tire, so the patch is wider, but is shorter from front to back. This also improves cornering and braking, but drops fuel economy and may hydroplane easier. It also reduces traction on snow. HTH TB |
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Tboner, I am not picking on you but you made a statement that .... 17" wheel .... improves cornering and braking, but drops fuel economy and may hydroplane easier Would you please point us to the references where it would say that 17" will have inferior hydroplaning resistance in comparison to 15" or 16" tire? MB |
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I do believe I've been quoted out of context here, the stuff you left out really changes the meaning of what I said here. (Leaving out the direct object really changes what I said, don't you think? I was talking about the contact patch. Perhaps I wasn't clear.) Given two tires that are identical tread pattern, the wider tire will have a greater tendancy to ride up on the water surface. The narrower tire, can cut through the water easier. A wider tire picks up and puts down more rubber in the same distance because the contact patch is wider. A narrow tire will have longer patch, so less of the tire is being picked up and put down in that same space of time. This causes greater friction (because basically, traction is a measure of a tires friction) And just as a point. I didn't say a 15" would be superior. I said a wider tire will experience these behaviors. It is not a function of the rim width, but that of a wider tire. Just for clarification, here is what I said People with the 17" wheel may have a wider tire, so the patch is wider, but is shorter from front to back. This also improves cornering and braking, but drops fuel economy and may hydroplane easier. It also reduces traction on snow. However, the final thing to consider is the rotating mass. If the 17" wheel/tire combination is heavier than a smaller diameter, you have more losses in the drive train. Acceleration can suffer if you install a heavier wheel tire combo, not to mention fuel economy. Finally, a 17" rim may put more mass further away from the center of the wheel. The mass is harder to move and to stop, if it is shifted out from the center of the wheel. A 15" wheel/tire combination, of the same weight as a 17" wheel/tire combo, but have a more favorable distribution, due to more of the tire's mass closer to the center of the rim. I believe the forces involved here increase as a square property to the distance from the rotational axis, so the further out from the hub the mass is, the greater impact it has on rotating the entire mass. But I never said the 17" rim, by it self, causes these thing. Rather, I said the typical application of wider tires, combined with the taller wheel does. Clear? TB |
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I have/had the same problem. It turned out that the gear lever can be placed somewhere between D and 3, which causes the O/D OFF light to start flashing after a while. Also, the square around the gear designation letter disappears. After a while of driving like this, the transmission starts acting up. Remember that this transmission is not only, unfortunately, automatic but also electronic and adaptive, which probably means there is a computer that thinks for you and screws up most of the time. I do love this country but I just can't understand this automatic everything thing. ATs cost more money, are more complex and ARE NO FUN!!!! -- kcz |
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Well it is not really clear to me. I am only talking about hydroplaning effect. Simple physics state that the size of the surface has nothing to do with the force of friction. Friction depends on the coefficient of friction, which is different for each kind of material, and from the weight, which is the force one object exerts on another. I don't want to get here in coefficient of static friction or coefficient of dynamic friction. The point I am trying to make is that the width of the tire has nothing to do with hydroplaning. MB |
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I have tried to put the lever between D and 3 and I am not able to do that. It will not stay in between position. It will either go to D or 3. As a matter of the fact I am unable to do that in any "between" position. Possibly this is the problem that some Mazdas have gear lever defective. MB |
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but it does have to do with how much tread you are putting down during a given unit of time. However, probably the most important aspect is the tread pattern, and which way a tire evacuates water. If a tread patter forces a tire to evacuate water from side to side, instead of front to back, the wider tire will have a greater tendancy to hydroplane, simply because it cannot evacuate the water fast enough. More distance to travel. However, I do agree that if a tire has a more clear path in the tread, from front to back, it may evacuate water quicker from front to back. Since this is a shorter path in the wider tire, it may not hydroplane as easily. However, I still believe, in most cases, a wider tire, suddenly encountering a puddle at high speeds, has a greater propensity for hydroplaning, simply because the rate of change of tread surface moving across the road is greater. A narrow tire will leave any given portion of the tread surface on the road longer than the narrow tire because the tread pattern is long and narrow. So you have a smaller area trying to force out new water from the voids in the tire. The wider tire is laying down more rubber per unit time. So it has to force out the water it encounters at a quicker rate. If the two tires in question have the same tread pattern, I believe in most cases, the narrower tire will do a better job of preventing hydroplaning. The friction discussion above was meant to explain why you might experience a drop in fuel economy using a wider tire. Not to mention that drag increases 4x when speed doubles. There would be an ever so slight increase in drag with a wider tire. But I even admit that is a bit of a stretch. However, you don't see wide front tires on top fuel dragsters. TB |
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http://www.msgroup.org/TIP035.html
This seems to indicate, unless I totally miss my math, that a wider patch requires more speed to support hydroplaning.
Back to the drawing board TB |
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