Last post on Oct 26, 2013 at 11:52 AM
You are in the Chrysler/Plymouth Voyager, Dodge Caravan
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Chrysler Voyager, Dodge Caravan, Dodge Grand Caravan, Chrysler Grand Voyager, Van
#1223 of 2391 I ended up with a T & C
Jul 04, 2001 (5:50 pm)
I posted this in the T & C forum, but have to be honest and confess it here too. Afterall, I just said a few days ago that I liked the Voyager.
Well, yesterday I bought a T & C. Here're the details:
I got a 2001 T&C LX for $500 under invoice (Dealer's rebate of $500) plus $2000 customer rebate. Total financed came to something like $19k (I threw in some $$ to get the payment down). It is a simple Steel Blue LX with 25h pkg and rook rack. I like it a lot (color and smoothness). We're all taking it on a 100 mile trip today to see some relatives.
Wife did complain that it didn't have the "oomph" going up a hill. But, I really don't see the problem. I do think that I recall someone saying here that the engine gets better after break-in (it only has 55 miles on it).
Oh, and the dealer found me a 6.3% rate for 60 mo! The best I saw on-line was 6.4% or 6.7%. I couldn't get Chrysler's special 3.9% rate because I took the $2000 rebate.
Dealer was very nice (though they skimped a little on my trade-in; they're going to make a lot of money off of that car). I got a 7yr/100k miles bumper to bumper warranty from the insurance company tacked onto my regular ins pymnt for about $7 a month. (Insurance actually went down between 2001 T&C and my 96 SUV!)
All in all the van costs less than my old RAV4. And, insurance went down (crash test results from what I understand).
Somehow I ended up with 10 speaker even though its not supposed to be on the car. And, I can go back and get about $200 of parts for free. I'll probably get mudguards, rear net or organizer, and wind visors. I may want a spoiler later (they handed me a dealer-priced accessory catalogue that they said they didn't need any more because the 2002 one would be out soon).
I tried to get 2100 rpm rattle to happen on the test drive. I couldn't. I couldn't hear any roof rack wind noise either. But, I wouldn't know what it'd sound like. To me the car is quiet.
Only negative that I know of now: how do I go back and figure out what TSBs to haggle over?
I mis-calculated when trying to figure out what my financing would look like. You take dealer cash off the top (it lowers what you are paying for the car so the IRS doesn't need to see it). Then, you do the taxes/tags and add that the cost. Then, you take off the customer rebates. Thats your financed amount. I made the mistake of adding dealer/customer rebates together, then taking that total off of the car cost, then doing taxes/tags, then calculating pymt from that. It makes a difference (taxes slightly higher) when you do it my way.
I used carsdirect as a guide, but I couldn't get them any lower (to get them to the 5% below carsdirect price that I've seen mentioned before). I tried but he told me that I was eating into the dealer holdback and they couldn't do it. So, I just settled.
Anyway (sorry for the long post), I like the van, and will check back with updates. I'll also try to remember buying experience tips to share with those who are thinking about buying (I found some things here really helpful as I was considering but some more things may help others).
Oh, I did find that the tires were under inflated. I added air. Does everyone else have 45 psi pressure? Am I reading that right? I only inflated UP TO 40 psi for now to be safe (I think the dealer had it down to about 35 psi; that can really affect mileage). Should I go up to 45 psi? I have goodyear something or other.
Thanks for all your help.
#1224 of 2391 dsoiam - tire presssue
Jul 05, 2001 (5:07 am)
Yeeps. 40-45 PSI is way to high.
On my '01 LXi the recommend pressure for our tires (Michelins) is either 35 or 38 psi.
There's a sticker inside the glovebox (against the back) that lists appropriate tire pressure. I believe there's another sticker with the same information on the driver's door jamb.
45 PSI is probably very close to the maximum inflation on the tires themselves - not a good thing if you drive long distances in hot weather.
#1225 of 2391 There's a sticker on your door
Jul 05, 2001 (8:21 am)
that will tell you the inflation pressure for your tires.
The MAX PRESSURE listed on the tires is not the proper pressure.
Jul 05, 2001 (10:14 am)
I checked and and you were right. I went back and inflated to 36 psi today. I was reading the sidewalls which say 45 psi. But, recommened is 36 psi. I have goodyears.
Jul 05, 2001 (6:16 pm)
The 45 on the sidewalls is if you carry a heavy load in your van. Then you need to put more air in the tires.
My 1 ton truck I had calls for 50lbs. all around unless I am carrying a heavy load like my 5th wheel before I sold it. Then I was to put 55 in the front and 80 in the back. Of course this was on my tire sticker on the driver door. They should put simular stickers on all vans etc. but they don't.
Jul 05, 2001 (6:28 pm)
If the door plate says 36 psi and the tire says 45 psi max, I would split the difference. The manufacturer wants a softer ride but I think the tires will last longer at the higher pressure.
#1229 of 2391 More Negotiations
Jul 06, 2001 (8:02 am)
After another "miscommunication", the dealer has tried to get me to go well above invoice. Originally gave me a number that should have included my last couple of lease payments. Later said he didn't understand what I was asking. I am making a final offer on a fully loaded SE. I came up with an invoice price of $31,500. $2,000 rebate takes us to $29,500. Splitting part of the dealer cash rebate. $29,200 doesn't seem unreasonable to me. What do you think? The dealers are really trying to give the impression that these vans are flying out the door. But that's not what I've observed so far.
#1230 of 2391 Re: More Negotiations
Jul 06, 2001 (8:53 am)
Jeffc1 - if the vans were flying out the door why would they need a dealer cash rebate AND a $2k customer rebate?
Let's get real: the top end DC minivans are having trouble moving, partly due to overpricing, partly due to the economy. I'm almost certain there are unpublished dealer incentives on these minivans, and the dealers I talked to 2 months ago simply remained silent when I suggested as much. Suggest you try another negotiating strategy. Find a different dealer in your area who has lots (20+) of vans similar to the one you want in stock. Go in on a weekend, be as polite as possible, indicate you are ready to buy right now, but that you have limited time (30 minutes) to find the item and agree to the price (you'll come back later today to sign the papers if the price is right). Show them a write-up, such as a print out from a web site, of exactly the van you want. If you locate an in stock model you are willing to buy right then, offer them $2k under invoice ($4k under invoice with the customer rebate). If they start with questions like "how big a payment do you need" or stuff like that just politely interrupt, reminding them you're on a time limit, and repeat the offer. Tell them that depending on their response you'll come back later that day to close the deal. Again, keep it as polite and businesslike as possible.
They can do one of several things. 1) Decline to counter offer (very unlikely, you're a real buyer and they have too many minivans in stock). 2) Accept the offer (also unlikely, they don't want to leave any money on the table). 3) Counter the offer. If they come back $1k below invoice, tell them you'll sign today for $1500 below invoice, and leave (did I mention to do this politely?) giving them your phone number. After all, by now your 30 minute time limit is probably up. If they come back much higher, say, invoice, again leave them your phone number and politely say that was more than you'd been hoping and will need to do more "research".
The upshot is that you'll probably get a much better price than you've been given so far. If not, and you try this at 2 dealerships, then you can satisfy yourself that the local prices are not much lower than invoice.
But, my own experience in CA is that the high volume dealerships are willing to go $1k and more below invoice to move the high end vans.
Jul 06, 2001 (10:18 am)
Thanks for the help. That's pretty much how I've been trying to approach the "buying experience". I made a final offer at $2500 under invoice including rebates. The salesperson tried to cry the blues. He said they are locating the vehicle so they won't get the holdback. It's costing them money to go and get the vehicle. I said thanks but no thanks. Said he could get me a lesser equipped vehicle for that price. He was missing the point I think. No biggie. The local dealers all seem to be OK with not selling the vans. I'm in no hurry though. So we'll just wait them out.
#1232 of 2391 jeffc1, thats exactly what I paid 3 days ago
Jul 06, 2001 (10:53 am)
$2,500 below invoice including rebates. Thats what carsdirect has. I would printout a carsdirect order, writein the costs (I couldn't get carsdirect to printout the costs but, I wrote them in), go to the dealer and say, "If you can beat this, I'll sign today". Don't worry about what they think about it or get into that talk about payments and whatever. Just offer it and walk away if they can't do it, and if you're ready sign if they beat it (even if its only by $100 or if they beat it by throwing in stuff like chrysler mud flaps or a cargo organizer).
I was blessed in that I the dealer that I went to gave me that off the bat ($2500 off invoice) and wouldn't budge below it into their holdback (which could be more through unpublished rebate). I never had to pull out the carsdirect printout. But, I know that it would have worked. I also put in an order with cars.com at $2500 below invoice and had a dealership call back the next day with 4 vehicles ready for me to choose from (depending on color).
From the cars.com approach, I did have two dealerships call me that wanted me to just look at their stock. I mean, I could have done that on my own. They were using my cars.com request as an announcement to them that I was in the market. But, the other dealer (a large comglomerate dealership) actually found cars that fit what I specified and was ready to sell one to me (they probably would have tried to push dealer stuff in addition had I went there).
But, I just went back the first dealer that handed me a paper showing invoice - $2500 and bought from them. I think they may be a better dealership anyway.
Where are you? I'm near Balt-Wash DC. I saw that the dealership that I bought from just put about 20 more cars out on the lot. So, their ready to deal again. I can recommend a salesman, etc.